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Thread: SANS codes.

  1. #21
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    this is what i like to see...tell us more about the space heater dicussion.

    i will make a point of updating my sans book and get more involved in the discussion.

    surge protection was engforce a couple of years ago then they scrapped it and now only if it is a high risk area it is required.

    i agree with the DB in the cupboard but being a contractor and inspector...i have been involved in too many projects where customers have requested the cupboard be installed over the DB...most times you cant even ge tthe cover off...but to move it can be a huge job.

    All DBs should be installed in the passage behind the passage door...it is the most practical place...nothing gets put in front of it...it is easily accessable from most places in the house...and by just closing the door you have full access to it...and if you mount it at a reasonable height you can put a picture over it...which can be removed to do work.

    tv aerial earth should be installed by the aerial installer...but then the earth bar should be accessable in the roof...their argument is they cannot open the DB because they are not qualified to do so...and i agree...an earth bar in the roof could be of great assistance to everyone for geyser bonding...tv aerials...etc.

  2. #22
    Email problem 123's Avatar
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    Guys, let's put this one to bed, and kiss it goodnight. SPD's is NOT required for a valid CoC.

  3. #23
    Email problem 123's Avatar
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    Apologies, but the general interpretation of SANS 10142 1.3 (f) is: Excluding TV circuits... (pse read).

    Since "Television Circuits" , which most definitely includes the antenna, is excluded from "this part of sans 10142 -1" ... it is a no brainer. sans 10142 does not apply.

    Or am I wrong?

  4. #24
    Diamond Member AndyD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by murdock View Post
    tv aerial earth should be installed by the aerial installer...but then the earth bar should be accessable in the roof...their argument is they cannot open the DB because they are not qualified to do so...and i agree...an earth bar in the roof could be of great assistance to everyone for geyser bonding...tv aerials...etc.
    Why can't they install a separate earth spike for the antenna?

    Quote Originally Posted by 123 View Post
    Guys, let's put this one to bed, and kiss it goodnight. SPD's is NOT required for a valid CoC.
    As far as I know they're not a requirement but I would wait for better consensus on this if I were you.

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    the spike in the ground would be great but imagine tv people doing ground resistance tests...i cant see it happening...another test...better for the electrician to supply an earth point...just getting them to fit an earth will be a challenge on its own...still having to put in earth mats etc i cant see it happening...unless of course you add a hefty fine if not installed...i like the way the people who cut off hands for stealing do things...you dont see tooo many people walking around with no hands.

  6. #26
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    thanks for the link to sans..

    just the fact that we are discussing sans is a step in the right direction...now we just need to get more people involved so that different views on various subjects can be discussed and practical issues being experienced...then all we need is to get the whos who in decision making at sans to hear what the contractors are experiences in the field...who knows there might still be hope for this industry.

    regardless of any of the guidelines mentioned in the sans book...there is one important factor...did you take apropriate steps to ensure the safety of humans and animals whether it be guide lines form sans book or justu use plain old common sense....becuase the next question will be...with your experience and qualifications why did you not take apropriate action as required to protect them if you believed it was unsafe.

  7. #27
    Site Caretaker Dave A's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by murdock View Post
    regardless of any of the guidelines mentioned in the sans book...there is one important factor...did you take apropriate steps to ensure the safety of humans and animals whether it be guide lines form sans book or justu use plain old common sense....becuase the next question will be...with your experience and qualifications why did you not take apropriate action as required to protect them if you believed it was unsafe.
    Which brings us to earth leakage units on plug points - how can anyone sign off an installation as reasonably safe without an earth leakage unit covering the plug points, just because the installation is older than a certain date?

    We know better and have the equipment available nowadays - so why must we be obliged to accept outdated safety standards?

  8. #28
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    i agree with you 100%...i ended up buying one of the houses i did a coc for...at the time of inspection there was no e/l unit fitted...i signed over the house and wrote on the coc in bold letters...i would strongly advise an e/l unit is fitted.

    i ended up buying the house...what do you think the first thing i did...fitted an e/l unit.

    the reason...20 years ago i moved into a house which had no e/l unit...i had to replace a plug socket...so i went to the DB and switched off the plug circuit...assuming it was the correct circuit i removed the cover and grabbed the plug to pull it out because the wires where a bit short...because of the way i was holding it i didnt get thrown clear instead i was pulled against the wall...and stayed there for a period of time...god must have had other plans for me because i couldnt get myself loose and stayed there until i fell over which released me...i can still remeber that day like it was yesterday...it is a horrific experience.


    my advice to anyone who has not got an e/l unit on the plug circuits no matter how old the house have one fitted asap...especially if you are an electrician...because that is always where the worste accidents happen because you think you are too smart and tooo relaxed when you work on your own property.

    an earth leakage is a "personal protective device"...designed to protect human beings from electricution...not stop fires as some people think.

  9. #29
    Diamond Member AndyD's Avatar
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    At the risk of kicking a hornets nest, I'm in two minds about earth leakage breakers. Even if you get a shock off a system that's protected the time for the unit to disconnect is long enough to defibrilate you and possibly cause heart failure. If having an earth leakage installed makes people less concerned about getting shocks it could actually be a counter-productive measure.

    Under normal circumstances to get an electric shock from an appliance you need two separate faults simultaneously and the person to be in contact with the appliance chassis at the same time. Firstly there needs to be a low-insulation fault which providesa path for current flow between the live wiring and the chassis. Secondly there needs to be a missing or poor earth which means there's no low resistance path for this fault current to safely flow.

    If it was a choice between having an earth leakage fitted to an installation and having all your appliances tested twice a year, I think the latter option might result in less deaths from electric shock.

  10. #30
    Site Caretaker Dave A's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyD View Post
    At the risk of kicking a hornets nest, I'm in two minds about earth leakage breakers.
    More like stepping into poo
    Let's see if we can get you off the fence on this one
    Quote Originally Posted by AndyD View Post
    Even if you get a shock off a system that's protected the time for the unit to disconnect is long enough to defibrilate you and possibly cause heart failure.
    If 20-30 mA is enough, then that's always going to come down to the path the current takes. (I thought it takes about 50-100 mA, but I suppose that it will vary according to each person's own constitution).

    I'd far rather have protection that's going to automatically kill the juice within a fraction of a second than get hooked up and have to wait for blind luck to take a hand, or for someone to realise there's a problem and kill the supply.
    Quote Originally Posted by AndyD View Post
    If having an earth leakage installed makes people less concerned about getting shocks it could actually be a counter-productive measure.
    Valid comment, but I think people are too blasé about electricity already. Consider the "if it works, it's fine" attitude test inspectors get from their clients. Ultimately, it's hard to see people becoming more casual about it than they are already.
    Quote Originally Posted by AndyD View Post
    If it was a choice between having an earth leakage fitted to an installation and having all your appliances tested twice a year, I think the latter option might result in less deaths from electric shock.
    Testing an earth leakage unit is far simpler, and how often do people do that?

    I think extending the earth leakage protection debate to appliances is a bit tricky anyway. That takes us right into the "everthing on earth leakage regardless" scenario. Plug points are a special risk zone, I reckon, as they present a number of problems and risks you shouldn't be getting elsewhere, particularly when it comes to reliable earthing.

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