Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 49

Thread: SANS codes.

  1. #11
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    2,346
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 254 Times in 209 Posts
    this is what i was hoping for...constuctive critism.

    dave its time to scrap the generator thread and turn it into the sans code thread

  2. #12
    Site Caretaker Dave A's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Durban, South Africa
    Posts
    22,648
    Thanks
    3,304
    Thanked 2,676 Times in 2,257 Posts
    Blog Entries
    12
    I'll be honest - it's exactly this type of interpretive discussion I've been hoping to see a lot more of on this forum.

  3. #13
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Johannesburg
    Posts
    201
    Thanks
    25
    Thanked 52 Times in 43 Posts
    If you read Annexure L 1.2.1 Pg325 "Surge protection devices shall be installed at least in the main distribution board of an electrical installation"

    I also read the "may" part, but then remembered two things:

    1. An inspector once told me that the book may not always make sense, or there may be double standards, you have to interpret it in the safest reasoning possible.....so if you get a part that is "safer" than a contradicting statement somewhere in the book you must go with the "safer" option. This according to him will convince a judge in court that you were reasonable with the best and safest intentions.

    2. On the ECA roadshow they discussed the changes. They talked about SPD's and the guy said for JHB its a no brainer, we have guy fox up here every second night with all the lightning, and supply is a problem every once in a while. He then also talked about CPT, said that the CPT guys said they never get lightning, showed a picture of this massive lightning bolt hitting close to table mountain (everybody laughed).....but more problematic is the CPT supply problems as I understand it.

    Point is, theres a part in the code that says I must install it, and every new house/COC I do I install it. If you are doing a big complex the engineer specifies SPD's at every split in the electrical system. The main SUB, Mini SUb, Block subs and the flat subs.
    IJS Installations
    Electrical, Residential Gas and Electric fencing.

  4. #14
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Johannesburg
    Posts
    201
    Thanks
    25
    Thanked 52 Times in 43 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by murdock View Post
    and to make it more interesting add in some practical experiences from the inspectors....for example

    while carrying out a inspection report...you come across a DB while is higher than 2.2 m above the ffl what action do you take and what would the recommendation be to solve this issue. (common problem encountered)

    do you leave it as is and sign over the coc or do you lower the main switch to below 2.2 m.

    another common one is the db in the cupboard...what do you do.

    so now you buy a property and walk in the kitchen and find the db in the cupboard...if you are not an electrical inspector by reading these post you will know what to expect and if the inspector has been on the property.



    the tv guy comes to fit you arial...what to expect...who puts the earth wire...and where do you connect it...all these type of question related directly to the public...it would make the public more aware and hopefully more people will take the time to contribute...or query installtions by posting pic of their queries.
    I'll answer these....I know you just made a statement and know these answers but...questions since someone may be reading them right now and wanting to know the answer?

    1. As far as I know you can do an industrial jobbie on the main switch.......take a 1.5mm stainless steel rope, ferrule it around the switch, make the bottom end lower than 2.2m, loop it and ferrule it. Add a sign on the rope (switch off this main switch in the event.......), and one on the DB.

    2. Db in the cupboard, put a lable on the cupboard door stating the DB is inside the cupboard, and must remain un-obstructed. Take a photo of the lable and you are set. (We all know the home owner pulls that ugly lable off before you turned on you ignition).

    3. The TV guy should put an earth wire, some does others don't. They should also adhere to any standards related to their industry, regardless of its origin.
    IJS Installations
    Electrical, Residential Gas and Electric fencing.

  5. #15
    Email problem 123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    57
    Thanks
    25
    Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
    Annex L.1
    (normative where surge protection
    is required or installed (see 6.7.6))


    It may be installed, and if it is installed, it shall be at least in the main db....

    Thanks Jacques, I see your point.

    I was more thinking as a requirement in order to validate a coc.

    Is it a requirement then? Should the issuer of the coc install it if it is not present?

  6. #16
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Johannesburg
    Posts
    201
    Thanks
    25
    Thanked 52 Times in 43 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by 123 View Post
    Annex L.1
    (normative where surge protection
    is required or installed (see 6.7.6))


    It may be installed, and if it is installed, it shall be at least in the main db....

    Thanks Jacques, I see your point.

    I was more thinking as a requirement in order to validate a coc.

    Is it a requirement then? Should the issuer of the coc install it if it is not present?
    Well, as I see it, it is a requirement, and I install it before I sign the house off. I actually carry stock of CBI L+N 5kA SPD's (cheaper than 2 x single pole units), and 6mm gp wire. If no-one can without a shadow of a doubt tell me that it is not required I'll rather not take the chance, and see it as the safer option? Maybe someone will read this and comment with a more definitive answer?
    IJS Installations
    Electrical, Residential Gas and Electric fencing.

  7. #17
    Email problem 123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    57
    Thanks
    25
    Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
    1.3 Where this part of SANS 10142 is not applicable
    This part of SANS 10142 does not apply to
    a) electric traction equipment,
    b) automotive electrical equipment (excluding the caravan part of a
    roving vehicle),
    c) electrical installations on board ships,
    d) electrical installations in aircraft,
    e) electrical installations for underground and open cast mining
    operations,
    f) telecommunication, television and radio circuits (excluding the power
    supply to such equipment),
    g) lightning protection of buildings and structures, and
    NOTE The installation of surge protection is not compulsory, but where it is
    installed, compliance with annex L is required. Amdt 1; amdt 5

    h) extra low voltage control circuits between different parts of machinery
    or system components, forming a unit, that are separately installed
    and derived from an independent source or an isolating transformer
    (excluding ELV lighting circuits). Amdt 5


    I think this should clear it up?

    Note of interest: television circuits? does this include the antenna? is the antenna part of the signal circuit?

  8. Thanks given for this post:

    Jacques#1 (19-Mar-10)

  9. #18
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Johannesburg
    Posts
    201
    Thanks
    25
    Thanked 52 Times in 43 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by 123 View Post
    [I]1.3 Where this part of SANS 10142 is not applicable

    [B][U]NOTE The installation of surge protection is not compulsory, but where it is
    I think this should clear it up?
    Note of interest: television circuits? does this include the antenna? is the antenna part of the signal circuit?
    I yield, it looks like that specific part may indicate that SPD's is not required. Now, try explaining this to an inspector (they don't exist in the old format anymore....now AIA's).......I've had an hour long debate with two inspectors about the definition of space heating.....and references to underfloor heating a few pages further.
    IJS Installations
    Electrical, Residential Gas and Electric fencing.

  10. #19
    Diamond Member AndyD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Cape Town
    Posts
    4,923
    Thanks
    576
    Thanked 934 Times in 755 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacques#1 View Post
    1. As far as I know you can do an industrial jobbie on the main switch.......take a 1.5mm stainless steel rope, ferrule it around the switch, make the bottom end lower than 2.2m, loop it and ferrule it. Add a sign on the rope (switch off this main switch in the event.......), and one on the DB.
    I think you would need to be careful with loose or hanging type of arrangement that it would not present a 'contact' hazard if the door is opened.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacques#1 View Post
    2. Db in the cupboard, put a lable on the cupboard door stating the DB is inside the cupboard, and must remain un-obstructed. Take a photo of the lable and you are set. (We all know the home owner pulls that ugly lable off before you turned on you ignition)..
    This has always been a problem area especially with domestic installations. Knowing damn well that any labels are destined for removal and that the cupboard will be cluttered in a week means that in the event of an accident, a certain amount of liability would be on the shoulders of the issuer of the certificate surely. Maybe a firm rule of no DB's in cupboards would be better.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacques#1 View Post
    3. The TV guy should put an earth wire, some does others don't. They should also adhere to any standards related to their industry, regardless of its origin.
    Apart from the earthing requirement, the TV dish or antennas would not fall under the electrical COC. The earthing should be removed from the electrical regs in my view and made a part of the TV installation regulations. I think they included it in the electrical regs as a cop-out rather than trying to enforce good TV installation practices.

    Quote Originally Posted by 123 View Post
    Annex L.1
    (normative where surge protection
    is required or installed (see 6.7.6))


    It may be installed, and if it is installed, it shall be at least in the main db....

    Thanks Jacques, I see your point.

    I was more thinking as a requirement in order to validate a coc.

    Is it a requirement then? Should the issuer of the coc install it if it is not present?
    If I remember rightly, in one of the amendments surge protection was made compulsory then in a later amendment there was some backtracking and it was made discretionary. In some areas of Cape Town it might not be necessary, on the very few new installations we get involved in we include it in quotations but if price is an issue it's often the first thing to go.

  11. #20
    Site Caretaker Dave A's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Durban, South Africa
    Posts
    22,648
    Thanks
    3,304
    Thanked 2,676 Times in 2,257 Posts
    Blog Entries
    12
    Quote Originally Posted by AndyD View Post
    If I remember rightly, in one of the amendments surge protection was made compulsory then in a later amendment there was some backtracking and it was made discretionary.
    That's how I remember it too.

    Which makes a wiki based guide that highlights the "debatable" points and code changes a good idea, come to think of it. Then with each update we can edit the relevant page if affected and update the "changes" page.

Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. BEE for QSE's
    By Dave A in forum General Regulatory Compliance Forum
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 22-Jun-06, 09:28 AM

Did you like this article? Share it with your favourite social network.

Did you like this article? Share it with your favourite social network.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •