Solution To Crime In South Africa

[adrianh]

I still say public floggings is the way to go. We all get together on a Saturday afternoon and watch the criminals get 1-10 lashes. Rapists get their nuts chopped off and murderers get their heads chopped off. Serial thieves first get one hand chopped off and if they are caught again, the other hand.

Swift, harsh punishment is the only way to go.

This has an added bunus: We will be able to put the new stadiums to good use and we will be able to blow our Vuvuzela.

[Butch Hannan]

Crime is crime regardless of who commits it. Once we bring morality into the issue then we are on extremely dangerous ground. Theft is theft whether it is committed by an overfed rich man or a hungry poor man. I agree that the unemployed and poor have to be helped by the government and society at large. We all have a "moral obligation" and NGO's in all probability do more than the government.

My issue is about violent crime which I expect to get a lot worse when the world cup is finished. These criminals need to be removed from society.
butch Hannan

[Butch Hannan]

Eish!!! Eina!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[adrianh]

So how do you propose we remove the government and three quarters of the population from society?

[adrianh]

I agree with Butch on one thing - theft is theft. The notion that it is ok to steal when you are hungry only serves to perpetuate the problem.

They have hands, some know how to work the land, why don't they grow their own food. Why do they go from the rural areas to sit in townships without toilets and running water (but have TVs & cell phones mind you). The point is that they are perfectly capable of cultivating their own subsistence crops, cleaning their own environment and digging their own longdrops.

I spent a lot of time in Zambia. The bulk of the people are dirt poor, yet they smile and live simple lives.

I have no sympathy whatsover for those who bitch and moan about a lack of education, a lack of money etc; Take responsibility for your own life, get off you lazy ass, grow some food, dig a longdrop, pick up the trash in your township, don't crap in your water, read a book and get the F out of my yard and my dustbin.

Yes, the F...rs are too lazy to work and no it is not utter BS created by the rich to enslave the poor! They can grow food and sell it, but they will rather steal to buy KFC & Black Label.

[tec0]

In the end, we will inevitably fall victim to cruelty, and bad things will happen. Still when it is all said and done there will always be a benefactor, the syndicate responsible for every aspect of human suffering.

See, you can mutilate, execute or lock up every criminal on the face of this earth; there will always be one more criminal, one more horrible crime. It is for this reason you must get to the root of the problem at hand.

Strangely enough this root is woven into society, and is dysfunctional by default. I don’t know why this is really. My best guess is; for things to work, things must stay broken...

[AndyD]

I still say public floggings is the way to go. We all get together on a Saturday afternoon and watch the criminals get 1-10 lashes. Rapists get their nuts chopped off and murderers get their heads chopped off. Serial thieves first get one hand chopped off and if they are caught again, the other hand.

Swift, harsh punishment is the only way to go.

This has an added bunus: We will be able to put the new stadiums to good use and we will be able to blow our Vuvuzela.

Sounds like you're advocating Muslim Sharia law. Since when has the punishment ever deterred a criminal?
You must also be careful what you wish for, most white collar crimes are also theft as is tax evasion and fraud etc. You're likely to have half of the privileged section of society missing limbs if you're not careful.

I agree with Butch on one thing - theft is theft. The notion that it is ok to steal when you are hungry only serves to perpetuate the problem.

I disagree, we live in a society that differentiates according to the severity and circumstances of a crime. Theft isn't just theft same as speeding isn't just speeding and taking the life of someone isn't just murder. You get prosecuted and sentenced according to the severity and the circumstances around the offence not merely the result of the offence.

They have hands, some know how to work the land, why don't they grow their own food. Why do they go from the rural areas to sit in townships without toilets and running water (but have TVs & cell phones mind you). The point is that they are perfectly capable of cultivating their own subsistence crops, cleaning their own environment and digging their own longdrops.

Working land and growing crops is great if you have land and equipment. Same as digging longdrops is great if you live in one place If you don't live in one place then digging a longdrop every time you need to kak can be quite a tall order.

I have no sympathy whatsover for those who bitch and moan about a lack of education, a lack of money etc; Take responsibility for your own life, get off you lazy ass, grow some food, dig a longdrop, pick up the trash in your township, don't crap in your water, read a book

You say don't moan about lack of education and money but without either you can't cultivate land or read books.

and get the F out of my yard and my dustbin.

What's so valuable or private about your garbage that you get defensive about it. If you've thrown stuff away you've already disowned it.

Yes, the F...rs are too lazy to work and no it is not utter BS created by the rich to enslave the poor! They can grow food and sell it, but they will rather steal to buy KFC & Black Label.

This is just propagandist rant. I can see you're annoyed about something but you have only generalizations and no constructive suggestions.

I agree that the crime issue needs to be addressed but I would advocate prevention rather than punishment.

[adrianh]

Sounds like you're advocating Muslim Sharia law. Since when has the punishment ever deterred a criminal?
Come come, fear is a great deterrent - Religious people tow the line because they are scared that they might burn in hell.
A soldier in basic training polishes his boots because he knows if he doesn't he is going to get a opF_k.
Children used to do their homework because if they didn't they would get smacks at school.

You must also be careful what you wish for, most white collar crimes are also theft as is tax evasion and fraud etc. You're likely to have half of the privileged section of society missing limbs if you're not careful.
And this is a bad thing how?

I disagree, we live in a society that differentiates according to the severity and circumstances of a crime. Theft isn't just theft same as speeding isn't just speeding and taking the life of someone isn't just murder. You get prosecuted and sentenced according to the severity and the circumstances around the offence not merely the result of the offence.
Ah this might be so but you do not consider that a person can get away with anything provided he has a good contacts and enough money. Glen Agliotti is a case in point.

Working land and growing crops is great if you have land and equipment. Same as digging longdrops is great if you live in one place If you don't live in one place then digging a longdrop every time you need to kak can be quite a tall order.
I am quite sure that between a number of people they could purchase or steal a fork and a shovel. If digging a longdrop is a tall order then how are they planning to do unskilled labour in the first world.

You say don't moan about lack of education and money but without either you can't cultivate land or read books.
Most anybody can figure out how plants grow and they are able to understand picture books. If you say that they are too stupid to figure out how a carrot comes into existence then we are in bigger trouble than I thought.

What's so valuable or private about your garbage that you get defensive about it. If you've thrown stuff away you've already disowned it.
The fact that my garbage is still standing on my private property means that I haven't disowned it yet.

This is just propagandist rant. I can see you're annoyed about something but you have only generalizations and no constructive suggestions.
Yes I do have a constructive suggestion - Swift and harsh punishment.
Define "constuctive". Is it an opinion that agrees with yours?

I agree that the crime issue needs to be addressed but I would advocate prevention rather than punishment.
Now I can turn around and say that this statement is not "constructive" as it constitutes a generalization that does not consider that crime will still be comitted and that those crimes still need to be punished.

We can go round and round - you will not convince me that your views are "better" than mine. Yes they are different but not inherently better.

[tec0]

Same as digging longdrops is great if you live in one place If you don't live in one place then digging a longdrop every time you need to kak can be quite a tall order.

First off this statement was absolutely brilliant!

Honestly there is no right and wrong here. Yes crime is a problem. Now for crime to “go away” we will need a working justice system that can be used by all, regardless of wealth. We need to find more permanent solutions to deal with criminals.

Killing and mutilations will probably stop most criminals because they will be crippled, castrated or dead. Locking criminals up is not worth it because like us; America, Australia and England have really big problems in there prisons. Hard labour if used correctly can allow for skills development and a proper legal income but again it is also open to abuse.

Let us say for a moment second hand or “stolen goods” have no value and via clever electronics we can actually shut down stolen equipment so it will have no use at all. If something has no value and is useless then criminals will not steel electronics anymore.

What about money? With technology as it is we are basically living in a cashless society because nearly all of us with access to ATM cards will use the card rather than running around with cash. So if we better the systems. Criminals will no longer have access to bank notes and this will be very good for places like petrol stations and casinos.

Technology can engrave diamonds so once again the system is available we only need to make it work! Other jewellery like gold might still be a problem but again if it has no second hand value “meaning you as the owner can get money for it” but the criminal gets nothing then there is no profit for the criminal.

I agree that drugs, violent crimes and murder must carry the death penalty only! And we have spoken about this before: tracking devices planted into the human body in a place like the heart or brain will dramatically reduce crime to 0. Simply because you will know where every person was when the crime was committed.

The truth is people “myself included” dislike the big-brother surveillance system but it will work. And the technology is already available.

The point I am making is that there is more than one solution to a problem the question is and I have asked it before: Why is nothing being done?

[Dave A]

Burglars have raided the home of one of the key figures charged with preventing crime at the World Cup, South Africa's deputy police minister Fikile Mbalula, media said Tuesday.

Mbalula lost several expensive appliances, including an LCD television, when his official residence in Pretoria was burgled at the weekend in what police believe was an inside job, reported the Star.

Mbalula's spokesperson confirmed the incident to the newspaper but did not give further details.

"We have left the matter in the hands of the [local] police," Paena Galane said.
full report from M&G here

Seemed relevant to the discussion at hand

[adrianh]

When I walk down a road and a dog attacks me, I give it a swift kick. The second time I give it a harder swift kick. From then on I carry a 357 Magnum when I walk down that road. I don't pat the dog, talk nice to it, give it a shelter with hundreds of other dogs and feed it a nice meal.

When a murderer says that it is great to be in jail because he has a bed and three meals a day, which he never had, your first world justice simply has no value. First world justice means absolutely nothing to a third world mind. It means as much to that mind as fuzzy logic does to a 4 year old child that grew up in the bush.

An eye for an eye - like it is said in the good book.

[tec0]

In the end it is true that logic goes out the window... But it doesn’t matter what you or I say, to the law we are irrelevant and is subject to imprisonment if we question the law. So, perhaps anarchy will prevail. Our history is full of revolutions and it did change the world.

I think it is just a question of time when all our systems and control measures fail. But this also comes with a warning; If all the systems fail, human morality fails with it.

[adrianh]

Man is a simple animal with an IBM XT on top of a monkey brain. The two are in a recursive loop giving the impression of intelligence. We are the ghost in the machine. The "civilized" ones tend to use the XT a bit more that the others. Most of the ones running the XT's a bit more think that they are actually Cray's but that the only run one Pentium III processor. I got news for you, you are not a Cray and you overclock your XT, your IO ports are crap, you have haphazard base memory and your operating system is Man OS rev 1.1c. Your IO port firewalls filter and alter input haphazardly and changes depending on your chemistry at the time. If we evolve for another 200,000 years we may become 286's but then, we will probably end up destoying our power supply only to start all over again as apes. Darwin and natural selection laugh at our endevours to evolve by ourselves. We are like sheep trying to will ourselves into growing wings and fly. And yes, I speak for myself too, my XT and monkey brain don't always sync up too nicely. Sometimes my monkey brain is in control and sometimes my XT is in control. Most of the time fate is in control.

[Dave A]

Most of the time fate is in control.

Perhaps fate expects your intervention to achieve its goal

The bigger the numbers, the more predictable the outcomes including the effect of aberrations.

[adrianh]

The bigger the numbers, the more predictable the outcomes including the effect of aberrations.

There are lies, damned lies and then there are statistics.

We have taken 1 trillion samples of Nelson Mandela's life. In each sample he never died once - therefore he is immortal.

Unfortunately statistics are only as good as the assumptions that they are based on and even if the assumptions are good, staticians are unable to predict Black Swan events.