Foreigners occupying local jobs?

[JanChris]

Hi Guys, want to throw a stone in the bush this morning.

I would like to see what comments come forward about "foreigners" occupying local positions and they sit mostly in senior positions.

Definition of a foreigner is, " A person who comes from a foreign country who does not owe allegiance to your country".
Cheers

[adrianh]

I have 3 Zimbabweans working for me and I won't change the for anybody else. The reality is that the government's BEE policy aims to replace WHITE SOUTH AFRICANS with other people. You must remember that the redress of inequality is a politically motivated undertaking and as such will do anything in its power to remove white South Africans from business even if it means to replace them with white foreigners.

The only way for a white South African to survive in this country is to start your own little business (The ideal is to do so with BEE partners) If you really want to get ahead then you should gear the business to provide something that the masses need (You could teach them how to run factories)

The bottom line is that we can either bitch and moan about how terrible the country is or we could figure out how to survive and profit from the situation.

I read an interesting quote from the second world war and it was this "When bombs start to fall buy property" - as odd as it might sound the war will end some day and you will own the land.

It all goes to being practical and making the best of any situation, as grim as it might seem.

[JanChris]

Hi Adrian,

I agree with you but as I have touched on this subject briefly before, it is (BAD)government practice to replace experienced people with those who are still learning to perform the tasks that is required to manage a successful country. Lets be honest, the rest of Africa is not really an example of how it should be done. The European countries assist with food and basics ALL the time while we (SA) would rather spend money on rubbish. Read an article by a black guy this morning where he says that the previous government (regime) everything was in working order. now everything seems to be falling apart while the current government is trying to figure out how all works. I saw last night a TV program where they discussed the road forward with Mugabe, needless to say, what he said in 1976 is nothing what is happening today in that country.
I will definitely make my own successful future and riches in this country. Even if I have to get support from abroad. I am sure that they will see the potential of a proven plan.

[desA]

Xenophobia is an amazingly simple excuse for extreme myopia. I find this whole thread quite disgusting.

"When bombs start to fall buy property" - as odd as it might sound the war will end some day and you will own the land.

Not if recent tendencies to restrict foreign property ownership gain sway. Imagine if that was applied retrospectively - eg. 300 years back!

[JanChris]

This thread would be "disgusting" if you fear, part take or approve of it. The truth is, just look around you and see what I am talking about.

Makes you think, does'nt it.

[desA]

Xenophobia appears to be alive & well in SA. I do have to agree with you, on that score. It is very sad in a nation that once welcomed foreigners who made their home in SA. At that time, we were so appreciative of the new ideas others brought to SA's shores.

[adrianh]

Hi Adrian,

I agree with you but as I have touched on this subject briefly before, it is (BAD)government practice to replace experienced people with those who are still learning to perform the tasks that is required to manage a successful country. Lets be honest, the rest of Africa is not really an example of how it should be done. The European countries assist with food and basics ALL the time while we (SA) would rather spend money on rubbish. Read an article by a black guy this morning where he says that the previous government (regime) everything was in working order. now everything seems to be falling apart while the current government is trying to figure out how all works. I saw last night a TV program where they discussed the road forward with Mugabe, needless to say, what he said in 1976 is nothing what is happening today in that country.
I will definitely make my own successful future and riches in this country. Even if I have to get support from abroad. I am sure that they will see the potential of a proven plan.

The bottom line is that it is what it is and we have to make the best of it. No matter how much we complain it ain't going to change. I am a practical person, I prefer to make a go of it even if I don't like the situation. I had a choice during my 2 years of national service, sulk all day or accept it and find a way to deal with it and survive. It is the same for you, forget about fixing the country for the moment but rather concentrate on the things that you can fix, which of course is your own financial status. Once you've got your own thing going then worry about all the rest.

[adrianh]

Xenophobia is an amazingly simple excuse for extreme myopia. I find this whole thread quite disgusting.



Not if recent tendencies to restrict foreign property ownership gain sway. Imagine if that was applied retrospectively - eg. 300 years back!

"When bombs start to fall buy property" - as odd as it might sound the war will end some day and you will own the land.

Des, this statement is a metaphor. It means that although a situation is grim and that there seems to be no way out, if one were to play your cards right you may just come out on top when it is all over.


Why do you find the thread disgusting? It is merely a discussion tossing ideas around, I don't see any emotive content.

[adrianh]

This thread would be "disgusting" if you fear, part take or approve of it. The truth is, just look around you and see what I am talking about.

Makes you think, does'nt it.

You know, us white South Africans can be likened to the Japanese in the second world war. Hear me out, again, this is an analogy so don't get fixated on the details. Anyhow, the Japanese military wanted to fight to the death, each and every man would have laid down his life for his country and of course many did, many even went as far as knowingly flying their aircraft into American warships in the pacific aka Kamikaze and many committed suicide rather than surrender. The one day president Truman had his bombers drop atom bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The Emperor decided that carrying on with the war was no longer viable and surrendered. Surrender went against everything that the Japanese stood for but he did it in order for the Japanese culture to survive. Yes it was tough and yes it was demoralizing but the Japanese were able to recover even though they had to do so under a new set of rules. The point that I am trying to make is that it is not always in your interest to fight head on, sometimes it is in your interest to take whatever $h1t is handed out and to build a life in spite of it. I bet the Japanese thought; "if the Emperor wants us to surrender and to quietly build ourselves up again then we will" You see, the Americans may have beat the Japanese militarily but they did not beat them psychologically. My view of the new regime is this "F*ck 'em, my family and I will survive in spite of them"

[desA]

I've been trying to research pale-skinned groups resident in Nigeria, Kenya, before they were granted independence.

Did they go through similar things to what is presently happening in SA, or was it completely different for them? What were their world views? Were they nationalistic? What were the economies like? Where are they now?

[adrianh]

I've been trying to research pale-skinned groups resident in Nigeria, Kenya, before they were granted independence.

Did they go through similar things to what is presently happening in SA, or was it completely different for them? What were their world views? Were they nationalistic? What were the economies like? Where are they now?

You must remember that they see us as the foreigners.

I think that unless colonialists came in to power and stayed in power they didn't fare too well. I think that the thought process on the part of the locals and their offspring is "You've told us what to do for long enough. We don't care what you know or what you think we should do, you should just leave us alone to do things the way we see fit"

This is the way I think that they see their lives (metaphorically speaking as usual)
A person adopts a child from another nationality. The person then beats the child if the child does anything wrong. The child starts to rebel and then gets locked in the cupboard for long periods. The more the child rebels the harsher the parent becomes. At long last the child is 21 and is now free to choose his own path. The child tells the parent that he plans to take the house in which he suffered all his life, to burn it down and to rebuild it as he sees fit. The parent tells him that he can show him exactly how to build the new house just as long as he doesn't kick the parent out. The child says that he doesn't actually care what the parent does just as long as the parent stays out of his face. The child is now big and strong and has the power to wring the parents neck.

The question is not... What does the child do?

but rather...What does the parent do?

[desA]

...What does the parent do?

Emigrate?

[adrianh]

Emigrate?

There are various options:
1. Emigrate.
2. Rebel.
3. Sulk and die.
4. Put your pride in your pocket and work around the problem child. Not to work against him but rather to survive and succeed in spite of him.

[pmbguy]

"You've told us what to do for long enough. We don't care what you know or what you think we should do, you should just leave us alone to do things the way we see fit"?

Well said - it’s a natural response even


I like to have long conversations with my black clients about family, SA, business, politics, etc. Most of them are sharp and they know more about what’s going on then we often give them credit for.

I feel that once the model C generation “comes into power” SA will be pulling itself right… we just have to adapt and posture ourselves best to the current situation until then, whilst actively working to make things better, still making money.

[Houses4Rent]

I am a white foreigner on paper, but probably more South African than foregin by now. I do not think that there should be any discussion about being foreign or what race, but purely on merrit who gets what job. Period.

Just glad that I have my own business and a little legacy to leave//live off too by now. Busy growing it.

I pretty much all ignore all factors I cannot change to stay sane.

Another analogy to the bombs would be Warren Buffet. "Be greedy when others are fearful and be fearful when others are greedy." OR "Buy when there is blood on the streets."
In more simple terms: "swim against the stream if you want to be successful"