Solar challenges

[GCE]

What do you do if the meter box is closer to the outbuilding DB than the main DB ?

1/ Double up the cable in the meter circuit breaker and run the same size cable cable directly to the outbuilding DB, or

2/ Fit a sub Db next to the meter, label it main DB, fit a main switch and 2 circuit breakers (both 60 amp because the cables are both 16 mm sq) one feeding the main DB (which now becomes a sub DB 1) and the other to the outbuilding (which will be labelled Sub DB 2)

Would do option 2 - You need to have a point of control - the meter box will be classified as point of supply - The COC is issued from point of control to point of consumption

[Isetech]

That is how we normally do it, however it seems solar installers dont seem to agree, which doesn't surprise me.

What really concerns me, about the 3 day experts, the lack of understanding oh how to label a DB on a site. It doesn't help if everyone of the 9 double pole isolators on site are al labelled 'MAIN SWITCH".

How is the customer suppose to know which double pole isolator is the "main switch" with all these silly dual supply and PV labels all over every piece of equipment, it took me one and half hours trying to find the DB's and where they were t were fed from.

By the way it doesn't help showing the man of the house where everything is and how it works, because when the 10 year old child gets hooked up to the electricity and only the domestic or the wife is home.

Looking at the COC issued for the solar install on the project we are busy with, it looks like the IE who signed the COC/test report has been working as a rep or doing something else until he retired, now he has decided to start isuing COCs as a side to supplement his retirement package. I dont know what is worse the 3 day trained solar installer or the retired IE signing off his work.

Would do option 2 - You need to have a point of control - the meter box will be classified as point of supply - The COC is issued from point of control to point of consumption

[Isetech]

If you have made it this far and still doing installations, what is your sales pitch, now that the same thing that happened in 2008 has happened again, people have gone out and spent hundreds of thousands on backup installations to keep the lights on, some still trying to sell the idea that load shedding will go back to stage 6 after the elections.

I am going to stick with my generator for now, I have made it this far.

Unless you live in the Cape or have a spiny meter and it is spinning backwards, chances are you are getting some form of return on your investment.

It doesn't look like other municipalities has access to the 4 quadrant meters, so even if you do register the system, you might not get any return on your investment for selling back to power, you just helping a really bad situation.

Will there be a grace period to register, will there fines, who knows , we will just have to wait and see.

I am told that some people have had a problem with their meters going back past the recent months reading, resulting in a credit reading, a person has been sent to check the meter, identified that the reis a solar system and thats it, no further correspondence.

IF you work for a municipality, please feel free to educate us on what is going to happen, educate the public.

I have tried contacting radio stations, hoping they would speak to the mayor (as they do about current affairs) and shed some light on the way forward, but still nothing.

Maybe it would be a good idea to increase the panels on the roof and help eskom keep load shedding away.

I just feel its unfair that everyone is just keep hush about it and one day, they going to come out guns blazing and lay into everyone who has helped eskom reduce the load shedding and impose massive fines and penalties.

[Sparks]

I have no idea where you refer to but the installation I worked on did not have any 2.5mm bridges. Regarding the 25-20A breakers, some aircons require more than 20A to start whereafter their consumption drops. The motivation of providing 16A socket outlets is ridiculous. 4x6A loads is 24A, well within the capabillity of a 2.5mm cable. The other items you mention were also not at the complex where I worked.

[Derlyn]

I've also come across aircons supplied by a socket outlet on a dedicated 2,5mm aircon circuit that trip a 20A circuit breaker.

To abide by the regulations, I replace the 20A circuit breaker with a 25A one, but then I also remove the socket outlet and replace it with an isolator.

Problem solved.

I think one must also keep reg 6.15.2.2 in mind which reads:

The anticipated load of a circuit that feeds socket outlets shall not exceed 5kW.

5kW = 20A

[Isetech]

There is a reason why there are are different curve breakers, to compensate for inrush current caused by motor staring or things like magnetic tables.

There is no reason a 25 amp breaker should be used in place of a 20 amp, I have noticed aircon people use 25 amp breakers, because like the solar installers they dont have an electrical background and the 1 week electrical training does'nt teach them the difference between a restive load and inductive load.

From my experience it looks like electricians are not taught much about electricity either, if you really want to see how bad it has got, go do a refresher course...... eeeeish.

[GCE]

Regarding the 25-20A breakers, some aircons require more than 20A to start whereafter their consumption drops. The motivation of providing 16A socket outlets is ridiculous. 4x6A loads is 24A, well within the capabillity of a 2.5mm cable. .

It was not motivation that I was providing - It is the regulations and cannot be changed because you feel differently - If a 25Amp CB is on a socket circuit you cannot sign the COC - Clause 6.15.3 is pretty clear

[Isetech]

A few interesting note when you apply to register your SSEG.

If you apply for a zero grid export.

The installation shall comply with NRS 097 and SANS 10142

The max battery charging a capacity from the grid should not exceed 25% (15a for a 60 amp supply).

NRS 097-2-1:2023

5.7 Isolation

5.7.2 The disconnecting device shall be a ... a four pole for three phase star connected SSEG.

Some might be asking how do you know if the inverter is delta or star connected


The question many will be asking, does a 4 pole changeover switch qualify for this requirements, and are installers using 4 pole isolators or changeover switches?

[Isetech]

How many people are involved in your solar install project ?

I got a request to look into a solar project, a customer had an installation done a while back.

It was designed for both load shedding and energy saving, great.

Lets first talk about how many people are involved in this one little project, if the project was done right, then I would say great, however now we sit with a few challenges.

I am not 100 % sure exactly how many, but from the correspondence, it looks like there must be quite a few.

All with different names. (We talking about a single small inverter, 1 battery and couple of panels barely enough to charge battery). Ether the customer is going to be paying long term for the installation or someone along the line is getting paid like aircon/alarm/CCTV installers, they get to chew on what's left on the bones once all the fat cats have enjoyed the feast.

1/ A consulting company specializing in sales and loans, offering great specials, with a rep.

2/ A PR engineer

3/ A company doing the installations

4/ A registered person signing off the projects

5/ A company specializing in solar registrations with the municipality.

6/ A company now investigating why the electricity account has not reduced by at small percentage as promised.

7/ A company now investigation the COC which has been identified as incomplete, which now opens another whole can of worms, if the COC is incomplete was the person who signed the document ever on site to oversee the project, to verify the equipment design was correct, the installation completed as per the design and to verify the test results for the test report?

At the end of the day who looses, certainly no one listed above.

Solar investigations start at R1200 (ex vat) an hour, plus travel. People get desperate, so like everyone else it makes sense to climb on the band wagon and squeeze the suckers for ever last penny . I should just go with the flow, nobody is going to step up and protect the public and its work and easy money.

[Isetech]

Lets look at what went wrong, you know how people are selling the idea that solar reduces your electricity bill, well it has been a few years since the solar rush began, load shedding is no longer the highlight of every conversation, warehouses are loaded with excess stock, people are looking at this chunk of cash paid out or the monthly bill they now have to pay, which has strict instruction that there is to be zero export until the utilities can supply new meters.


It all goes back to design:

1/ My favorite, the utility bill design

2/ The load profile design.

3/ The thumb suck design

4/ The start small and expand design.

5/ The load shedding design.

6/ The energy saving design


During stage 6 load shedding they were all great, they all "kept the lights on" the tens into the hundreds of thousands of rands spent were seen as a necessity, people would show off or brag at braai's about who had the biggest system or the longest backup time.

Now that the load shedding has eased for a while, reality has kicked in and all that cash that was thrown at solar or the monthly bill which has to be paid is making people look at ways to try recover some of that money spent or justify the money being debited from their account every month.

What happens now, you start looking at what is installed on the property, how it is performing, start looking at the documentation, if the installation would pass a real COC/test report inspection when you sell.

Wait till the registration is enforced and the fines and monthly fees are introduced, I think there is going to be a bit of a shyte storm, especially if there is no load shedding, are going to waste more money registering a small inverter with a battery? I have bad news for you, all SSEG's will have to be registered, including your little money pit which requires charging from the grid , which hopefully you are not breaking law , by charging at more than 25% (15 amps for a 60 amp supply).

[Isetech]

Just when you thought, I have done it, bit the bullet, spent the money and now I have a system that will last at least 10 years ( 10 years warranty and all that sales talk) some even say 25 years.


1/ System is designed correctly.

2/ Supervised and Installed by a suitably qualified team (which could include a combination of elctrical and green card certified team members)

3/ Inspected and tested by a registered person who visited the site during the installation filled out all the relevant data and issued valid COC/ test report.

4/ Updated all the UI, inverter and battery firmware (very very very important step) It has a huge impact on the system performance.

5/ Optimized the system settings best suited for your application, by a competent installer.

6/ Registered with your local utility.

6/ Sent in the equipment warranty documents for approval.

7/ Register and downloaded the app, get a basic understanding of the app and where the tech support section is in the app and how to use it.

8/ Finally sent off all the documentation to your insurance company to cover your system for fire theft or damage.

Happy days

Just a note with regards to insurance, they cannot reject your claim on the grounds that your COC is not valid, as the responsible person for the electrical installation, if you have taken the steps to ensure that all the boxes were ticked which included using a DOL registered elctrical contractor which requires they have a full time employed registered person completed the installation they cannot reject your claim on the basis that the COC is incomplete or illegal.

If you have used a company which is not registered with the DOL, best of luck.

Sorry be pop your bubble again, but there is a thing called maintenance.

Temperature, expansion and contraction of material will result in loose connection, where is the most likely to start yip, well dont you have been paying attention, the homemade solar DC control box, where installers in SA have chosen to add a little more meat to the deal.

Another place would be the battery cable terminations and basically everywhere there heat generated, no big deal, my installer will be back every 6 months armed with a thermal imager to scan the equipment and cabling for hot spots and re torque all the terminations.

The installer will also do random checks on the system, as I am doing this morning on all the systems to verify that there have been no faults recorded, the loads are still within the equipment parameter and if firmware upgrades are required.

I know some will say dont break something that works, then why do you keep getting software updates for you phone tablets and other electronic devices? To make matters even worse, if your installer didn't do a firmware upgrade on all the products, inverter batteries UI, in the workshop or onsite once the installation is complete, chances are your system is not function correctly. Silly things that you wouldnt even be aware of until you have the update done.

I see it all the time, random error codes for no reason out of the blue after a month or 6 months, system failures due to old firmware, battery cycling issues, battery voltage fluctuations dropping below 100%, down as little as 1 % and down to as low as 80 %.

If you think It bullshyte, spend a day on the whattsapp groups

If you are an installer and part of the tech support groups, you will see 999 of the messages per day are firmware related, the rest are installer error issues.