Light fitting in braai or fireplace

[washayag]

In a domestic installation, can a light fitting be installed inside a braai or fire place ?

[AndyD]

Yes, if it's designed to be suitable for the environment. Easiest is to buy an oven light fitting Defy or a similar supplier and use glassfiber insulated wiring.

[Blurock]

I don't know if it is legal, but I fitted an ordinary light bulb inside my braai. It's been going for about 15 years and only replaced the bulb once.

[Sparks]

It must just be kept in mind that if a brass lampholder is used for a metal fireplace then the fireplace must be earthed.

[DieterT]

And for that matter earth the fireplace even if it was a porcelain holder since the electrical wire would most probably pass through the opening hole in the steel work to the lamp holder and one day is one day where those wires get damaged and makes that whole fireplace conductive and pietie goes to take a swim and quickly jumps out grabs his ice cold beer and flips the bloubul steak while leaning against the outer steel standing in a nice puddle of water. Please also don't forget if you use a E/S fitting that the live goes to the inner and the neutral to the outer.

[bergie]

i always use a small oval die cast aluminium fitting with a 60 watt rough service lamp. from the switch or connection box close by , i would install silicone wires . as mentioned, earthing is very important.

[washayag]

thanks sparkies, that's helpful info

[Leecatt]

thanks sparkies, that's helpful info

Please bear in mind that the law prevents you from attempting this installation yourself if you are not a registered contractor, or working under the direct supervision of a electrical contractor.
This forum does not constitute the latter.
Once the light fitting is installed, or the wiring replaced, a new electrical certificate most be issued for at least the new installation or alteration subject to regulation 9.2 of The New Electrical Regulations.

[ians]

Unless you use an extention cord with a plug ... baiscally making it a lead light ... or use a torch mounted on a bracket.

However ... if the light is installed inside the chimney using conduit and wiring ... twin+e or surfix ... with the ight switch on the wall or a smart switch ... then it becomes a whole new ball game.

Things to consider ...

The position and height of the lamp holder ... would determine the type of lampholder to be used.

The type of lamp used ... stoves for example use a specific lamp designed for the purpose.


Type of wiring used depending on the height and position ... must be able to withstand the heat (especially when you buddy has had a couple too many and starts loading the braai with a pile of solid pieces of wood)... asbestos or silicon ( depending on the height above the fire place)

Conduit type ... plasitc ... steel or bosal.

Then lastly ... if a conduit is attached to the side of the chimney (for built in braai/fire places) ... you would need to fire seal the conduit to prevent the spread of the fire into the conduit.

I have seen twin+e with a standard down light installed in chimneys ... an old 50 watt 230/12 volts lamps wouldnt have been a problem ... but replacing the lamp with a plastic LED lamps ... dont know that that would be such a smart idea.

As even electricians say ... but it has worked for 15 years ... I have seen a few lights in braai/ fire places which pose a serious fire hazard ... if you just using fire lighters and charcol ... I dont see an issue ... its after a few too many on a cold winters night and the lads start piling the wood ... best you make sure your light can take it.

[ians]

Now that we have cleared that up ...

Lets say you want to install a light in a chimney?

an example ... a built in braai/fire pit ... like a jetmaster.

You dont want to see any wires on the outside ...

so you go into the roof and drill a 20 mm hole into the side of the chimeny mount a bosal adaptor (not plastic) ...

run the wire down inside the chimney from the ceiling space ...

drill 2 holes and mount a bracket inside the canopy for the lamp ...

use a downlight tail as the lamp holder ...

connect 2 cores of the silicon cabtyre to the tails using heat shrink with an asbestos sleeve over the heat shrink ...

fit a lug to the earth wire and attached it to the bracket you just fitted to hold the lamp that you dril a 5.5 mm for the earth wire.

connect the wire to standard house wire in the roof space and seal the adaptor hole with fire seal.

Use a 50 watt 230 or 12 V downlight.

Lets hear what you think?

[Justloadit]

connect 2 cores of the silicon cabtyre to the tails using heat shrink with an asbestos sleeve over the heat shrink ...

I was under the impression that Asbestos has been banned.

New regulations push South Africa towards an asbestos-free environment 29 November 2020

Silicon or glass fibre are the only other materials to use.

[AndyD]

I assume he meant fibreglass insulation. Asbestos has never been widely used as insulation as far as I know, mostly as flash guard material.
Fiberglass sheathed with silicone insulation wire is available but it's expensive to buy. I've used it before in braais in conjunction with a silicone impregated fiberglass sleeve as basically a home-made cable.
You also get fiberglass sheathed with PTFE insulation wire rated at about 300 degrees Celsius. Again it's hellish expensive.
If the lamps you're using are low power maybe thermocouple cable would work, it's 2 or 3 wires with PFA or PTFE insulation and a fiberglass or steel / stainless steel braided sheath. Just make sure it's a non-compensating conductor wire of low resistance. These would be rated between 200 and 400 Celsius and probably around 80 Bucks per meter for cut lengths.

[Blurock]

I have had a light installed in the chimney of my braai for more than 20 years.
It is a normal light fitting like the old ones you had hanging from the ceiling with a copper fitting at the end.
The bulb is a standard 60w house bulb.

The wire is threaded through a hole drilled in the brickwork and the light fitted at the end. Then pulled tight back into the hole again.
The light is about 1.5 m above the fire and the switch is on the wall next to the braai.

I had to replace the bulb for the first time about a month ago but have had no issues whatsoever.

[ians]

Some advice when reading stuff on social media ... if you install 0.5 mm twin speaker wire to all your security lights around the building ... it will work ... this fact because I see it all the time ... then a wring inspectors comes along and tells you you have to replace it and the repsnse is always the same ... "by why" ... its worked for 50 years ... I had this last week ... I just walked away from the job.

I arrive at a house ... call out earth leakage tripping ... before I even take out my tools and tester ... I walk around the proeprty and just look (new customer) check for things plugged in ... isolators not switched off ... the usual stuff ... Its bad.

I go collect my plug tester ... only one light switches on ... I turn the dial the earth leakage doesnt trip ... try all the plugs ... it doesnt trip ... live and neutral switched somewhere.

No earth on the socket outlets ... a long list and I havent even taken out the 1653 yet.

I inform the customer that the house requires a full inspection report ... before I even try find the cause of the earth leakage tripping ... due to all the illegal wiring and issues ... the cusotmers repsonse ... I dont understand our neighbour for 20 years is ...................................... wait for it .............................................. " AN ELECTRICAL ENGINEER" ... need I say more.

my point ... I have been throwing petrol on the braai to get the fire going for years ... works like a bomb ... then the other day the bottle caught on fire ... it didnt end well.

maybe a piece of twin flex down the middle of the chimeney with a energy saver lamps should be fine

By the way I did some research ... it turns out the tape I have been using for years and years ... is called sicaflex heat tape AB ... you never too old to learn ... I have been referring to it as "asbestos tape" for years and years ... and didnt know it is now banned or replaced with alternate fibres ... wow.

https://www.asbestos.com/companies/minnesota-mining-and-manufacturing-company/

https://adlinsulflex.com/heat-resistant-tapes-cat/silicaflex-tape-ab/

[markthespark]

I believe any steel braai with a braai light must be earthed. The possibility of abrasive wear of the cable passing through the steelwork is very strong. Just as important as the earthing on a stove!!!!