The Electrical Certificate of Compliance explained

[ians]

Good day Gents.

Was reading some of the posts on here and seem to be pretty mild compared to what Iv been through with a property that I bought just over two years ago. My case is somewhat different as I bought a newly built place from an old man which built with his own money and offered me finance. I decided to take it and then get a bond later.

At the time he showed me building plans, electrical COC and engineering certificates. Seemed legit so I paid him a large deposit and we moved in. I was mistaken as to this day the place is still not signed off. The trouble started last month where he had to get a new ECOC as was getting stuff ready for the building inspector to come out. He calls the same electrician that gave him the first COC and they just sat at the back and filled it in without setting foot in the house for an inspection. The old man knew that I had put up flood lights by another electrician. I then had my own inspection done and they were shocked at the way this install was done. From open boxes to no glands and the DB that has a zero earth leakage from the council box, wrong phase used and man a list goes on. I then get hold of the old man and told him about the problem but he responds by screaming at me and tells me that he will terminate the contract and I will walk away with nothing, at this time Iv almost invested 1 bar into this place. I then get hold of my lawyer and he sent him a 30 day notice to sort it out. About a week goes by and I get word that the building inspector is coming out so I make the time and meet with them at the house. I nearly fell on my back after I hear that the old man handed the same fake COC to the inspector as he was now under terms and rushed to sign it off. I showed the pictures to the inspector and mentioned that these were all sent via email to the old man some time before. The inspector blew his gasket on him that day and so did I and told him to get it sorted out. The old man then get's a qualified electrician out to go through everything and he took most of the day making a list and made some changes to the DB as he mention that the over current protection was to high and was worried about it. The electrician spoke to my girl friend on the day and told her that he would make sure by going through everything and provide a proper COC. We were then happy to hear that the old man finally got someone decent in but that was short lived as we then see some other guy pitch up two weeks ago to start working and now it would seem that he is making it even more illegal. The lights trip and we have had to switched off some of the breakers. I took pictures of the down lights and for some reason he has cut off the connector blocks that used to have an earth on them and just connecting them straight with two wires to the 220 supply. The bottom line here is that the old man don't want to pay and the crazy thing is that he has millions in the bank. He also has no regard to the fact that our five year old boy is also living in this house.

This is why he has millions in the bank... i have it all the time the people with the most money have the shortest arms and the deepest pockets.

the first thing they tell you... is things are a bit tight... then ask if your rate is the best you can do ...then they want a detailed quote ...but dont want to pay for the quote ...but also dont want you to add your time taken to prepare the quote ...then they not prepared to pay the travelling cost... they also have a mate who can supply the material ...but you must still prepare a bill of quantities and give it to them and not charge for the time to prepare it... it just goes on and on and on ...sound familiar?

i should start writing a book when my bussiness gets to 30 years (in just over a year) i would have reached my goal and dont really care what happens to it after that....i need to start looking for a new goal.

I have just had an incident where one of my customers bought a house ...i always tell them ...dont sign any paper work until i have done a quick 10 min visual inspection and checked who signed off the COC there are few dodge inspectors around Durban ...the response is normally the same ...dont worry the estate agent has their people who sign off the house or the owner has said he will get it done... and that right there people is where the problems starts...everyone is getting their little piece of the action ...the seller has no interest in wasting his profits on repairing the list of faults....he just wants the piece of paper so that the transfer can go through.

I dont go to site because it is a conflict of interest ... so i appoint someone else to meet with the customer and the person who signed over the COC ...a couple hand shakes and a list 3 pages long of all the faults to be repaired which need to be done... the criminal who signed off an illegal COC promises to fix all the faults... sends a team in for 3 days ...by the 3 rd day the customer has had a enough of the "team" damaging his property eating food out the fridge ...with the radio blaring in the lounge probably banging the maid in his bed (dont laugh it happens... even had a wife who was banging the garden boy) while he is at work...(why it pays to get a R299 wifi camera and leave it monitoring inside your house while they work so that you can view it from your phone while at work) ...the customer throws the team off site ... the electrical installation is still not up to standard ...and so the cycle continues... i get a call in 5 years time because the owner has had a house invasion and is leaving the country... calls me and requests i just sign over a COC and drop it off or he will collect... i refuse because i know the installation is not up to standard ....because he wasnt prepared to waste the money bringing it up to standard over the 5 year period... now i am the Ahole because i didnt spend my weekends bringing his electrical installation up to standard at my cost.

does this sound familiar ...i am sure other sparkies have similar stories

while on a role...must share this story ... get a call to fit a light in a small room off the main bedroom (a double story house) take my assistant (why i always work with an assistant not to help me but to protect me from these crazy customers) we run the cable and i am busy fitting the light ...next thing there is a security guard at the door to this room requesting i go with him... i do... we go downstairs and next thing there is a police van and more security vans... they about arrest me for attempted rape... anyway the cop asks me what i am doing in the room next to bedroom i take him up to show him ...they take mt assistant one side and start questioning him... cut a long story short ...it turns out she was banging garden boy.

my advice to any young sparkies... or trademen for that matter who work in houses ...always make sure you have an assistant with you there are some crazy people out there ...who do some really strange things.

I have many other stories... like customers accusing one of my mates for stealing money...the poor oke was arrested and it turns out she had hidden the money between the mattress and base worried they might steal it then forgot she had done it.... when she found it she had the case dropped... the poor oke life changed ...he almost got fired.

[mncbon]

Thank you for the perfect explanation.

There is still a grey area for most of those in factories though! Often, we do not understand which parts of the plant distribution network require a CoC. Examples are MCC,s motors, substation panels, where do these fall with regards to the COC?

What about normal plant maintenance and repairs and alterations.

[ians]

Thank you for the perfect explanation.

There is still a grey area for most of those in factories though! Often, we do not understand which parts of the plant distribution network require a CoC. Examples are MCC,s motors, substation panels, where do these fall with regards to the COC?

What about normal plant maintenance and repairs and alterations.

I have prepared and carried out inspection reports on large sugar mills... it took me weeks of preparation and data collection...every single panel from each sub station was checked and recorded on an Xl spread sheet ...which was reviewed and colour coded ...it resulted in a quote to repair... of around R 1.4 M

What people dont understand is that the COC is not about being right in every aspect right now... it is about creating a safe environment for people and animals ...and to prevent fires etc etc.

What we do on the large factory checks... prepare...record and repair...it is impossible to fix everything right now ...but rather as we south Africans understand it...as now now...just now... so what we do is create a list of repairs required and highlight the dangers by a colour code... for example ...no earth ...would require a team to be on standby to run a temp. cable/connection right now ...or critical ...a 1.5 mm wire connected to a 40 amp breaker would be labelled red... or a missing label for example would be labelled in yellow...you get the idea.

[Longtom]

Ya I guess that's how some people operate as even got an email from him saying that even though your concerns are important there is no time for it as need to get the place signed off due to the high rates coming from the council as they still see it as vacant land. Never the less Iv given the old basted terms and if he fails another COC then I take him to court over the matter.

[mygoggie]

I need to know exactly where the CoC validity period is specified. Kindly help me out.

[mygoggie]

Anyone?

[SeanM]

Greetings

In the OHS act Section 7 under electrical installation regulations

[mygoggie]

Greetings

In the OHS act Section 7 under electrical installation regulations

Thanks @SeanM

Just for reference it is Government Notice No. R. 242 of 6 March 2009 section 7.(5)

[W-TDMI]

I need to know exactly where the CoC validity period is specified. Kindly help me out.

Hi, the only mention of validity is for change of ownership. as for your question I assume it refers to the fact that how long are you responsible for the installation? Well the answer is straight forward as stipulated in OHS. You as the registered person stays responsible for the installation until something is change or added without a supplement COC. BUT you are only responsible for the following - INSPECT, TEST, VERIFY and CERTIFY so if this was done correctly on the day of your site visit you will be liable to proof that for as long as there is a installation and nothing has changed as mentioned above.
On the other hand as stated by OHS, the responsibility of the user or lessor is the SAFETY, SAFE USE and MAINTENANCE of the installation.

Hope this help.

[mygoggie]

Thanks @W-TDMI, the info is very valuable. I am actually the person to check if the CoC is valid and completed correctly for the site before I sign off the completed site.

Of interest to you is that the supplier of the installation remains liable for the installation under the CPA Section 61.

[W-TDMI]

Thanks @W-TDMI, the info is very valuable. I am actually the person to check if the CoC is valid and completed correctly for the site before I sign off the completed site.

Of interest to you is that the supplier of the installation remains liable for the installation under the CPA Section 61.

The supplier is only responsible up to the point of supply (Normally metering) from there its the user or lessor that is responsible for the Safety, safe use and maintenance. The registered person (electrician) is responsible for the Inspection, Testing , Verification and Certification to confirm that People animals and property is protected under NORMAL and FAULT conditions and to gather evidence for future reference.

Pre 1992 the supplier still had a obligation to test and confirm that the installation is safe, that has changed in the format as above. These day they just require the COC to switch on, the substance of the COC`s is not even confirmed.........scary out there, but its happening.

[mygoggie]

The supplier is only responsible up to the point of supply
These day they just require the COC to switch on, the substance of the COC`s is not even confirmed.........scary out there, but its happening.

I think there is a bit of confusion about the word supplier. In terms of the Consumer Protection Act, the supplier is the entity that supplied the product. In an electrical installation the product is regarded as being the complete installation from the electrical grid supplier to the plug outlets etc. Food for thought when you do the job and deliver a product. The consumer is now protected ...

Talking about substance of CoC's. I celebrated a bit some months ago as I received the first ever valid electrical CoC in many many many years. I could not believe my eyes ... I am not going to give out a list of "loopholes" the guys are using to make the CoC appear valid to the uninformed but it is quite interesting.

[Rifrug]

The consumer is now protected ..
I got a surprise call last week from a customer where I done a COC just over 5 years ago. They are auditing there COC’s and picked up small problems on the COC that I issued in 2014. They are now requesting the re-issue of a corrected copy of the COC. I am now in the process of the re-issue. This is a first time for me.

[Rifrug]

“ I am now in the process of the re-issue.”

If nothing at the installation changed and it is still the same owner. Would any regulations be contravened by re-issuing a new copy?

[mygoggie]

“ I am now in the process of the re-issue.”

If nothing at the installation changed and it is still the same owner. Would any regulations be contravened by re-issuing a new copy?

The problem you have is you need to prove nothing changed in the 5 years. To what are you going to compare it so that you can prove nothing has changed? And more importantly what in the regulations have changed that the installation now need to comply with? Simple example is that the geyser must now be on E/L. So unless these items are changed to meet with the new regulations, you cannot issue a valid CoC today.

The conundrum you are sitting with is that only the Chief Inspector may issue a copy of a valid CoC. You cannot do so. But alas your CoC as issued is not valid so the Chief Inspector will not issue a duplicate. So basically you will need to check and test everything again (refer to the above) and issue a new CoC. But then you acknowledge you issued an invalid CoC five years ago and contravened section 9 of the OSHA ...

This is exactly the problem I meet almost everyday of my working life and it is not limited to electrical installations. You do not want to go down the road of the new energy requirements of a building that needs to be met once something is changed.