garnishee order for my domestic worker

[tgeldenhuys]

Hi, some advice please:

I was presented with a garnishee order for my domostic worker instructing me to deduct 33% of her salary and to deposit it to into some account. This order was delivered by the sheriff Kemptonpark. I have not signed for this. Question is if I have to abide by this order? This would require significant effort and some cost to make a payment via a personal cheque into their account. Who pays for that? This will also sour my relationship with my domestic worker and she looks after my kids sometimes. I really do not want to get involved in this!!!!

[BigRed]

I really do not want to get involved in this!!!!

Hi

Unfortunately you have to....
I am not sure of the legality of the sheriffs document as you haven't signed this, but end of the day it is the responsibility of the employer to attend to these garnishes, including the costs thereof.

Here at work we are dealing with (partly) multiple garnish orders against a number employees. A whole new HR ballgame that by law, the employer needs to handle.

If there is a way around this, I'd looooove to hear about it

[sterne.law@gmail.com]

A garnishee order is an order of the court and you need to abide by it. Yes, some times the employer is seen as the enemy, which is unfortunate. What is important is to bring it to the employees attention immediately. The costs may be passed on to the employee.
You could also, depending on the amount, sort the bill out and then deduct a smaller amount from the employee, as a way of making things easier.

The employee may go or enter talks with the creditor to reduce the monthly payment. They are normally loath to do this as a garnish order is the last resort, in other words all attempts to discuss have been ignored by the party owing the money and so good faith talks are unlikely.

As to multiple garnish orders, employees or unions try and take up the position that an employer may not deduct more than 25% of the wage as per BCEA This however is related to a deduction, that the employer is making for an employment related issue. The garnish orders are orders of the court and it would be contempt if the employer did not obey.

[BigRed]

The costs may be passed on to the employee......

What you are saying is that the cost for the admin team as well as additional banking fees can be brought against the garnishee?

Kinda unfair as the individual is sitting in that position a he could not afford to pay off whatever he bought / owes...

[AndyD]

The costs may be passed on to the employee.

This kinda makes sense but surely the costs would be negligible to the point that it wouldn't warrant the employee being charged usually.

[tec0]

What I find interesting here is how far people will go get their money. Well In all honestly I am not sure about the laws. However, if you are made liable by court to insure payments it seems that we are entering in a totally new ballgame.

Is there even a payslip? If not how was the credit approved? The person claiming the money is always aggressive and I have found once you start asking the question.

A>> who approved the credit an on what bases?

B>> is the amount more than what the person can afford? “If so go back to question A�

C>> Contact the creditor and ask for the paperwork!

If all paperwork is in order then there is not much more than what you as a person can do. But I have found in most domestic cases credit was given to people that is NOT credit worthy and they are taking a big chance.

Normally I never had to go this far but you can get help.

To find out more go this webpage: http://www.ncr.org.za/

[BigRed]

Its all about making money. Retail outlets sell goods knowing full well if the person buying (and signing) doesnt pay, they are handed over to the courts where a garnish is issued to the respective employers......

Credit checks.... all we receive is regular calls confirming employment, no more

[tec0]

All I am saying is contact the NCR and make sure that the credit agreement is legal. I have found in most cases that the so called creditor gave credit without doing their homework first. If this homework wasn’t done correctly then the chances are that the “employee” was never credit worthy to start with and then you can ask the NCR for counter proceedings.

This will be one hell of an exercise but if someone is taking chances and they wish to implicate you, then go to the right people, ask the right questions and once you know the facts byte back and byte hard!

[BigRed]

All I am saying is contact the NCR and make sure that the credit agreement is legal. .....

Thats a moer of an exercise

[sterne.law@gmail.com]

Well the cost of the admin team would be pushing it. But more importantly, if we want to talk unfair, is when I say the cost can be charged to the employee, that is the choice of the employer. From a management perspective, the cost is so minimal, that i do not see the sense.
The legal costs are borne bythe employee. Although, as you point out, that is harsh, because teh person is in trouble, the garnish order, being a judgement, is only after all other attempts have been made. That is the employee has ignored calls and letters and has made no attempt to settle the debt. One cannot run away from problems, they need to be dealt with, taht includes being in debt.

[sterne.law@gmail.com]

Teco, perhaps you are misinterpreting - a garnish order is not an implication of the employer. The issue at hand is the employer being served with a garnish order. This, by turn brings them into the process, but they are not under any obligation to sort the matter out. Some employers will help in various manners.
As to the NCR, the employee needs to approach them if they feel the issue was unfair. Most credit givers, other than Micro lenders, AKA Loan sharks, aside, do all the neccessary. I accept that many persons are not totally aware of the consequences of the agreements that they sign, however once again when the nonsense starts they should not ignore the phone calls and leters and be responsible. Continously taking a stance that everyone is against us is not the way to progress. People need to realize that every action gets a reaction and there will always be consequences for our actions. The blame game, or he said she said game, is nothing more than an avoidance of owning up and saying I was wrong how can I fix it.
Are there unscrupulous operators? For sure. Is it as simple as saying everyone had a choice to lend or by whom? No, but people certainly have a choice as to how to spend their money, be it R100 a week or R10 000 a week. I would be very confident that the majority of bad credit is linked to luxury purchases and not daily needs. A person in debt for food and clothes that lends money deserves some sympathy. But if they possess a TV, cell phone, slightly fancy clothes or even worse, as i suspect, they are in trouble for a debt linked to a purchase of such items, one really needs to question if they are being so hard done by and the world is so evil. It is a tough world, granted, There have been some serious transgressions and wrongs in the past, present and there will be in the future. However, people do need to start taking some responsibility and stop relying on crying foul, and feeling sorry for ourselves when our own actions get us into trouble.

[desA]

Can the employer claim compensation as a servant of the court? I think the whole thing is a cheek.

Frankly, I'd hand it to my attorney & ask him to manage things.

[sterne.law@gmail.com]

The idea behind a garnish order is as such -
Firstly we agree that debt needs to be paid and therefore an effecient collection system is required.
In the absence of a garnish order, the Debtor would need to take full judgement and repossesion would need to take palce, this in turn leads to more costs and hence the person owing R500 could end up with costs of R3000-00. This could set the person back for ever. A garnish order is a payment scheme that the court works out as an alternative and less onerous way to obtain the money without destroying the creditor. In turn the employer, serves a duty to the state, by being the mechanism to ensure collection of the funds.
I think we should also look at the practical issues from a debtor standpoint. If a person owes you R2000 and they have no possesions, the non garnish order route, would mean a full judgement. Consequently with legal fees etc, they now owe R3000. As they have no possesions, how would you get your money? You would have to write it off. By getting a garnish order, you get your money. Perhaps the debtor should pay the costs for the employer, who acts as the collection agent.
I as an employer, have had numerous garnish orders, and they are no big deal. The only issue is that often when given the garnish order, the employee runs away, which could be a negative for the business.

[BigRed]

.....The only issue is that often when given the garnish order, the employee runs away, which could be a negative for the business.

We have such a case. The employer is only entitled to take a predetermined portion of the employees wages and pay this over to the garnishee / court. should this said individual however abscond or his employment be terminated (leaves) then such payments stop.

Note: you cant just stop paying. Its another process of informing the garnishee / court that he / her has left your employ and therefore you the employer have no further obligation.

[tec0]

Garnishment: withholding of one's wages by one's employer to pay one's debt owed to a third party

Sometimes it is good to inquire if the person working for you is not perhaps a victim. The truth is there are bad people and they do bad things. And yes you do get bad employees, friends and family members that always neglect to tell one the truth. “I hate it when people give me a sob story.”

Still if, the person is guilty or not he or she is still entitled to information that may help them. It is not your battle, no need to start a war this is true and I respect that above all else. But please take a minute to understand the circumstances that will now surface.

The employee is going to complain stating that they cannot survive on the income they get after the deductions and in the end of the day you as an employer can ignore the complaint OR you will end up giving the employee some form of aid.

That is why I would go through hell and high-waters and subject myself and my valuable time to get that employee off my back before the complaining start. By getting the claim dismissed or even getting some form of help may and I do stress may help getting the employee free from there mistake.

There is no choice here, go to the bank and make the arrangements and allow the amount to go off by debit order for the time specified, and get on with your life. Or do a bit of investigation and try to avoid coming conflict. See in the end of the day you probably will have to go to the bank regardless. But because you did the extra homework you know you did everything humanly possible.