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Thread: Metals Industry strike - my take

  1. #51
    Platinum Member desA's Avatar
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    The more complex the labour laws become, the less that entrepreneurs will want to employ people.

    I've met lots of very disillusioned former business owners who had dramatically downsized their workforce, to one, or two - & even that was considered too much - from a hassle perspective. To take on long-term liabilities when they really are not interested in working, is counter-productive.

    Far better to outsource, with minimal final assembly. In fact, outsource everything, if you can.

    Now, how does this suit the ANC's vision of job creation?
    In search of South African Technology Nuggets(R), for sale & trading in South East Asia.

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    tec0 (28-Jul-14)

  3. #52
    Diamond Member tec0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig Whitton View Post
    I recommend familiarising yourself with the amendments to the Labour Relations Act since the contracting practices that you are proposing will be illegal.
    funny I have contracts from Labour brokers stipulating employment for 30 days? Are you saying they are illegal? If so would you care to share the amendment and when it was made please? Because then a Labour brokers is in for a very very bad day.

    As for my own post, Did I not say speak to a lawyer that knows labour law? That it would be a good idea to spend the money and do it right? For the life of me I thought I did wrote that...

    Quote Originally Posted by tec0 View Post
    BUT I would employ a labour lawyer to get your fine print ready and make sure you are within the letter of the law. This is not optional as a bad contract can cost you and your company. So if you do it, do it right.
    I did wrote it down! for a moment I thought I am losing mind again... Oh well I will scan trough the new amendments I haven't had the time to be honest.

    But if what you say is true there going to be hell to pay because I am currently working under the assumption my contract I am working under is illegal...

    And every single one of us know the importance and value of a legal employment contract!
    peace is a state of mind
    Disclaimer: everything written by me can be considered as fictional.

  4. #53
    Silver Member Greig Whitton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tec0 View Post
    funny I have contracts from Labour brokers stipulating employment for 30 days? Are you saying they are illegal? If so would you care to share the amendment and when it was made please?
    The short version is that non-permanent employees may be deemed to be permanently employed irrespective of what their contract states if certain criteria are met (e.g. employee size; length of employment; reasons for non-permanent employment).

    I have a more detailed explanation on my blog (here and here) if you are interested.

    Founder of Growth Surge - Helping entrepreneurs create more wealth and enjoy more freedom.

  5. #54
    Platinum Member pmbguy's Avatar
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    Wow how's that for luck tec0. At least now you can get some great advice so you know how to sort it out from the inside like
    It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. – Charles Darwin

  6. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmbguy View Post
    Wow how's that for luck tec0. At least now you can get some great advice so you know how to sort it out from the inside like
    Are you crazy, I mean really, are you saying that one should take advice from an educated person who knows what he is talking about....pull the other one!

  7. #56
    Moderator IanF's Avatar
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    Back on track evidently Numsa say the strike is over. Lets see what landmines are still there?
    Times article
    Only stress when you can change the outcome!

  8. #57
    Platinum Member pmbguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrianh View Post
    Are you crazy, I mean really, are you saying that one should take advice from an educated person who knows what he is talking about....pull the other one!
    Its a novel and radical idea yes, but think of the possibilities!
    It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. – Charles Darwin

  9. #58
    Site Caretaker Dave A's Avatar
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    Tec0, at the end of the day you have accurately presented the worker's point of view to this forum (when no-one else has). And it was needed...

    I thank you for that.
    Quote Originally Posted by tec0 View Post
    Well when I say you are wrong it is because you are looking at the facts the wrong way. You are spot on about the rest
    Let's not squabble about who's way of looking at things is right or wrong. On that we're going to have to agree to disagree. There is something far more important to address than who's right.

    Whichever way you look at it, both sides still identify the same alarming future in prospect if we carry on the way we're going!

    Regardless of our different points of view, both sides need to recognise we face a common problem to overcome.
    Isn't it time to start identifying possible win/win solutions?

    Quote Originally Posted by IanF View Post
    Back on track evidently Numsa say the strike is over.
    Four weeks of a declared deadlock with no meetings to attempt to break the deadlock.
    Four weeks of strike action, with all the harmful consequences.

    Why couldn't this have been settled without strike action?

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    tec0 (28-Jul-14)

  11. #59
    Diamond Member Justloadit's Avatar
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    NUMSA wants to set a precedent for the future, in that they want employers to believe they yield a tremendous amount of power, so that in future their demands will be met with out resistance, because they will be prepared to go on struke and destroy business, they are expecting that employers will rather cave in to their demands vesus risking the loss of business.

    What NUMSA has not considered, is that business has nothing left to bargain with, in other words, the majority of business are on their last legs, and any mishap is sufficient to push them over.

    I speak from my own circumstance, I have placed all my savings of the last 10 years, into the business during the last 3 years, there is nothing left to prop the business up if there is another huge loss, I would rather shut the door than to risk my family's well being. Interestingly, I have been offered employment with remuneration which is more than 3 times what I get out of my business right now.

    I have spoken to a number of other entrepreneurs who are in similar business circumstances, where they have also invested all their savings to maintain the status quo. Very difficult times in deed. Whats holding me back is that some one else will tell me what I have to do every day, not something I will take on easily, having been a free spirit for so long, but the sentiment could change very quickly if the circumstances begin to lean the wrong way.
    Victor - Knowledge is a blessing or a curse, your current circumstances make you decide!
    Solar pumping, Solar Geyser & Solar Security lighting solutions - www.microsolve.co.za

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    Dave A (29-Jul-14)

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    Diamond Member tec0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig Whitton View Post
    The short version is that non-permanent employees may be deemed to be permanently employed irrespective of what their contract states if certain criteria are met (e.g. employee size; length of employment; reasons for non-permanent employment).

    I have a more detailed explanation on my blog (here and here) if you are interested.
    Let’s begin with temporary employees (i.e. employees who are contracted via a temporary employment service provider or labour brokerer). The good news is that you have nothing to worry about so long as:

    Your temporary employees earn less than the Basic Conditions of Employment Act (BCEA) threshold; and
    You employ them for less than three months; or
    As a substitute for someone who is temporarily unavailable.
    So I was wrong about everything?

    Quote Originally Posted by tec0 View Post
    Long term employees you put on a 3 month contract “renewable as needed”
    Quote Originally Posted by tec0 View Post
    short term employees I would place on a 1 month contract
    Quote Originally Posted by tec0 View Post
    employ a labour lawyer to get your fine print ready and make sure you are within the letter of the law.
    This is not optional as a bad contract can cost you and your company. So if you do it, do it right.
    Well I asked my lawyer to have a look at my 30 day AKA 1 month employment contract as set out by the broker. I and about 300 other "temporary employees" are all subject to the same contract so I wanted to know what goes for what. Well it was well within the laws and was told the broker contract "this time around is "standard" But it is good to check it out.

    Because as you said:

    Quote Originally Posted by Greig Whitton View Post
    I recommend familiarising yourself with the amendments to the Labour Relations Act since the contracting practices that you are proposing will be illegal.
    and yet

    Your temporary employees earn less than the Basic Conditions of Employment Act (BCEA) threshold; and
    You employ them for less than three months; or
    As a substitute for someone who is temporarily unavailable.
    But you are right we must leave this sort of questions to the professionals. Spend the money make sure you are within the letter of the law and your business will be safe.
    peace is a state of mind
    Disclaimer: everything written by me can be considered as fictional.

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