Spam telephone calls

[Dave A]

Folks all over get excited about email spam and SMS spam. If you bulk email or SMS there needs to be an unsubscribe option. Fair enough. But how do you stop spam telephone calls?

Seems an odd thing to say, but I'm definitely getting solicitations over the phone that definitely falls in the category of spam.

My major bugbear at the moment is some crowd that calls me from Japan once a month or more. Trying to get me to by shares in the next great Chinese telecoms prospect last time I had a connection good enough to understand what the heck they were trying to say. A combination of a tricky accent and an overloaded Skype call-out connection makes for what can only be described as a particularly irritating noise.

That, together with an apparent inability to understand the words "No!" and "Not interested" makes for a rather frustrating experience. Oh yes, and obviously well overloaded on Dale Carnegie or some other sales course on how long to keep people on the hook.

To top it all, they've got hold of me cellphone number.

Yesterday I asked them where they got my number - "ting, buzz, crackle Mr. Alcock, but what I want tzz, brft, strng ish the hottest stock. You don't want to mish, zzt, trang,ssshwk ting, zzzip.." I put my cellphone down.

In fact that's what I'm going to do in future. Someone doesn't want to stop their pitch when I've plainly intimated I'm not in the market right now, the phone is going down.

I'm way to polite to disconnect. I can't quite bring myself to use that universally understood word so beloved by Billy Connelly. But I can put the handset down and let them chat themselves out.

The least I can do.

But the fella that invents an unsubscribe button for spam telephone calls, please call me - I'll be your first customer.

[duncan drennan]

To top it all, they've got hold of me cellphone number.

Now that is pretty disturbing taking into account that you are pretty holy with your cell phone number....

[Marq]

I have had similar calls - quite a few in fact.

Two calls ago, I had some time on my hands and told them it was their money speak up. I played interested for some time and oohed and aahed and eventually the guy realised that it was I that was having the fun not him. The result was that he told me to go &^*% myself and slammed the phone down.

Since that day I don't have a problem putting the phone down and no longer have that guilty feeling about being rude to them.

[RKS Computer Solutions]

If you're not expecting other calls, just put the phone down on your desk after telling them to keep on talking, you're listening...

Worked in the uk, some insurance thing, she kept on talking for an hour, I eventually picked up the phone and said, sorry sweetie, I haven't been listening, can you say all that again, and put the phone down softly again...

Got a phone call 2 days later from a manager extremely upset because I was their money, I said to him to send me an invoice for his expenses, I'd send mine for my time...

Lately, I just jump in and say not interested, and you know what the bad thing is, 99% of these people just throw the phone down on you, can't even say thanks and bye, so do they really think that if that were their attitude, that I'd be wanting to do business with them anyway?

[SilverNodashi]

If the calls originate from the SA, just say "Do you know what the new NCA (National Credit Act)...... (they normally put the phone down by now)

Basically, the NCA doesn't allow anyone to phone you without your consent. It's like a opt-in system. From a company's point of view, I wonder how I would get a new client / leads permission to phone him though, but luckily not many ppl know about the NCA

[duncan drennan]

Basically, the NCA doesn't allow anyone to phone you without your consent.

I'm not too sure that that is totally true (don't know). I think that only applies to sales of products which would fall under the NCA.

[Dave A]

Basically, the NCA doesn't allow anyone to phone you without your consent.

I'll leave someone else to tackle what the boundaries might actually be on this, but it's hard to imagine the NCA stopping marketing in its tracks. But even if entirely true, the problem could be solved with technique.

A typical call start would be
"Hi there. Is that Dave A?"
"Yes"
"Hi there Dave - May I call you, Dave?"
"Sure"

Roll on the sales pitch with my permission because comma's are so hard to see in a telephone conversation

[Marq]

NCA doesn't allow anyone to phone you without your consent.

Very doubtful!

I have just a huge bunfight with Nedbank - who gave my information to Hollard who in turn gave it out to a Siswe Call centre. Selling insurance products.

So the initial conversation goes - "I am from Nedbank........."
So I ask a few questions and I get - "I represent Nedbank........."
Then after a few more questions from me, he says - "I am phoning on behalf of Nedbank...."

So my two questions were - Where did you get my information from? and Are you FAIS qualified? We did not get to the NCA question!

Of course there was no answer to them, the only reply I was getting was that I did not tick an opt out box when I opened my account and they could do anything they liked.

So I took it further and threatened them with lawyers, ombudsmen and the like.

The Insurance head from Nedbank eventually phones to apologise and tells me it will not happen again and bla bla bla. Heres the thing though - he tells me that they are entitled to use my banking information anyway they like within their Group. He further tells me that the call centre that they appoint is FAIS compliant -not the people running it. He denies the Hollard and third party connection.

A few days later I get a call from a "supervisor" asking me if the call centre jockey had processed the call properly and whether I was satisfied with their service. If he had been standing in front of me - my guess is he would be 6 feet under and I would be on the run.

[Chatmaster]

Something else that is very strange. I have a Telkom line at home. It is the normal Prepaid Telkom line that I specified should not be listed. I only use it for Fax and sometimes Internet. Every now and then I receive a phone call on this line from a company selling something. What I do not get is that I never hand this number out. I simply state I do not have a phone at home. Where did they get this number? I am very personal about my telephone and cell numbers and do not hand it to anyone. Jippi to me is the most irritating. I once made the mistake of sms'ing them to download the "farting monkey" ring tone. Since I have sms'd stop so many times, but every now and then they pop me another sms. Most irritating.

[Marq]

This opt in /opt out story behind spam is a real pain.

I get this guy from ePasella.com - coming in on my email regularly. His email says he is doing this in line with the act bla bla. When I queried him on ethics and source he says I have a web site and doing business out there and therefore I am fair game for his email spam list. So the emails get ugly, but I still get his spam. He says you did not push the opt out button. Push it and I'll go away. So I click it and I get the sorry to see you go BS - but I still get the emails.

The act is so open to abuse - it seems as long as you have the opt option available, thats all thats required. I can email you time and time again and declare the source to be your email address on your web site.

In the meantime I have downloaded all ePasella's clients information and email addresses (all there on his site - therefore fair game) and will be using them shortly in my own campaign. It's alright I have Mr Kahns permission to do this.

[duncan drennan]

I decided to read through the marketing practices part of the NCA to figure out what the story is with unsolicited calls.

The way I read it is that you must be able to opt-out of any marketing when you enter into a credit agreement. I can't see any reason why they would not be allowed to call you if they have your contact details, unless you have specifically opted out. Banks have been doing this for ages anyway, so I don't really see how this changes anything.

Here is the relevant section,

(6) When entering into a credit agreement, the credit provider must present to the consumer a statement of the following options and afford the consumer an opportunity to select any of those options:

(a) To decline the option of pre-approved annual credit limit increases as provided for in section 119(4), if the agreement is a credit facility; and

(b) to be excluded from any-

(i) telemarketing campaign that may be conducted by or on behalf of the credit provider;

(ii) marketing or customer list that may be sold or distributed by the credit provider, other than as required by this Act; or

(iii) any mass distribution of email or sms messages.

(7) A credit provider-

(a) must maintain a register in the prescribed manner and form of all options selected by consumers in terms of subsection (6); and

(b) must not act in a manner contrary to an option selected by a consumer in terms of subsection (6).

[Dave A]

When I queried him on ethics and source he says I have a web site and doing business out there and therefore I am fair game for his email spam list. So the emails get ugly, but I still get his spam. He says you did not push the opt out button. Push it and I'll go away. So I click it and I get the sorry to see you go BS - but I still get the emails.

The act is so open to abuse - it seems as long as you have the opt option available, thats all thats required. I can email you time and time again and declare the source to be your email address on your web site.

It took me a little time to figure out how to stop that from happening given the little mix of programs I use to concoct our mailing list each week. But the mailer itself has a very powerful unsubscribe functionality. Unsubscribe and it "blacklists" the email address. If it is re-subscribed in a subsequent list update - it still won't send to that email address. Dead. Over. No more.

It's partly why I've made the unsubscribe method via changing the "Receive emails from Admin" method. At least you've got the option to re-opt in if you choose to. The other benefit is if you happen to forward the email there is no possibility of the recipient unsubscribing you as the unsubscribe option area is password protected to your profile.

It adds a step to the process of making sure that only the right people receive the mail, but it's worth it.

I tend to giggle a bit at the modern trend of "click this link if you're going to forward the email" and the "reasons" they give. Basically, it's two real reasons - so that someone else can't unsubscribe you (by accident or intentionally), and of course, so they can track that new email address you're forwarding to

[Chatmaster]

He says you did not push the opt out button. Push it and I'll go away. So I click it and I get the sorry to see you go BS - but I still get the emails.

Why don't you try contacting www.spamcops.com They have caused some of my customers major problems in the past for doing the exact same thing.

[Eugene]

Guys, I have also received numerous of these telemarketing sales - be in credit cards, add-on insurance, a new vacuum cleaner - the works. Have to admit that most of them are great salespeople over the phone with an answer to most of the duck-and-dive answers like, I'm not interested, mail me the details etc.

Wednesday this week a lady phoned me up from or representing a major bank (no names, but it is the green bank) which was accually very good in pitching the whole product. She would just not accept NO for an answer. So I decided to change my strategy and asked her her name and do a little role reversal. It turned out that she was working for the telemarketing company now for a couple of years and was unmarried. Now at this stage compliments were flying on my side on how good she really is on the telephone and I casually asked her what kind of underwear she was wearing and that while she was so good over the phone if she is not interested in phone sex. Needless to say, she put the phone down and no sale was concluded.

[Ann Williams]

SA law and unsolicited marketing - of all varieties

There is hope!

Our legislation actually provides for 'unsubscribing' (being taken off of a list) for all means of unsolicited marketing - except for flyers in our postboxes (don't ask me how they get away with it when everyone else has to obey the rules).

Basically what the law says is:

1. Yes, marketers may solicit anyone who has given tacit approval. Now before you say: "But I didn't give anyone permission!", what is defined as 'approval' is if you have put your contact details into the public domain. You could have done this by allowing your telephone number to be published in the phone book or putting your e-mail address in an advert in the newspaper; or even that you have put your details on the internet in a non-password protected section. Ie. if you don't want to be marketed at, you need to become almost anonymous.

2. However, you are legally entitled to insist that you are removed from the list of any company that does solicit you and never be contacted again.

Now, this is not only for e-mails... Many years ago in the dark ages before the internet I used to work for a company that sent post to hundreds of thousands of people asking them to support various charities (such as the cancer association and guide dogs etc). This was all done on the same basis.

If it is an e-mail, just unsubscribe! Don't write snotty letters. (I've seen the one where the e-mail law is quoted - which I have a little laugh about, as as Duncan has already said, that particular law which people try to use as a big stick actually has nothing to do with whether one is allowed to send out unsolicited e-mails, and is to do with e-mail credit agreements.)

If it is by snail-mail. Return the letter along with your own letter asking to be taken off of their list. (Keep a copy.)

So if you get a telemarketing phone call from a company that you don't want to hear from again, just stop them in their tracks, tell them that as allowed for by SA law, you would like them to take your details off of their list - and make sure that you get the details of both the company they are representing as well as those of the call centre. (As almost anyone who has ever made a cold canvassing call for their business before can tell you, it's a tough job - don't make it worse for them.)

If the same people contact you again - tell them that you will sue them if they continue to call you.

From what I have seen, the big problem here is not actually with South African call centres or companies - it's with the overseas operators (and with skype-type technologies these days it's amazing how much of it is done from across the waters). Basically they just don't care!