The BEE issue

[Fanie]

I've briefly read a few posts regarding BEE and the trend seems mostly the same.

I'm not BEE, not interested in it, won't register to become BEE either, I've been pestered with it, threatened and probably lost some work because of it.

Bottom line is I spent years to have what I have, no government paid for what I know and the skills I have. I did it, me alone.

So will someone please explain to me who the hell gives this government the right to tell me I must give away even part of what I have worked to have while others were not prepared to do anything !

Surely after 17 years in power under the free ANC government where black people were favoured and had access to education there has to be these aspirant black entropeneurs brimming with skills and potentials who is going to flood the market with business. Where are they !!!!

One problem I see is that most people think they are forced to become BEE. How can any one force this. If nobody became BEE then where would BEE be now. Non existant. You cannot lose business if you are the source.

We have been experiencing HUGE problems with poor supplying from BEE companies. Something that has taken a week to manufacture in the 'old' SA now takes two months.

Just today I had a talk with yet another company manager. The semi literate answers the phone, firstly unprofessionally, then when you respond in Afrikaans you get put through from one person to the next never to reach where you want to be. Or they just put you on hold. This is terrorism of the business and discriminating against me, and I have been experiencing it quite a few times, the business owner unaware of it.

Well this is the thing that BEE does, it puts illiterate and uncapable people in positions they should not be in. If you think about it, it must be VERY humiliating for a person to be forced to do a job they cannot do !

Ok I'm on a tangent again (usually does)

The point is, if BEE creates such a big problem, why not just dump it and live without it. Nothing prevents you from employing capable black people if they are right for the job, you just don't have to employ or put up with uncapable and illiterate workers any more. I cannot understang why you would give your power to someone else.

[KimH]

Hi Fanie,

I can understand and probably relate to a number of the points that you have made in your post, however BEE is unfortunately a fact of business life in SA and rather than raging against the machine perhaps consider using it to your advantage.

The Company I work for had no choice but to become BEE compliant and we have just been through our annual review. What I would like to do is give you a better understanding of how the scoring works - please bear in mind that ours is a Small Enterprise (turnover over 5 million but under 35 million per annum).

There are 7 Elected Elements of which you need to choose 4 - the options are:

1. Ownership
2. Management & Control
3. Employment Equity
4. Skills Development
5. Procurement
6. Enterprise Development
7. Socio-Economic Development

Your first concern is 'giving away what you have worked so hard to build':

Our elected elements are 3;4;5;7 - therefore the ownership and major controls within our business remain unchanged from when the 2 owners set up this business 14 years ago.

Your additional concerns are the quality of staff and poor work output:

I think it is unfair for anyone to assume that all 'black' people are incapable and illiterate - there is also no law that prevents a business owner from applying careful recruitment and selection processes to ensure the right person is hired the first time. Furthermore training and development of staff bear it's own benefits as well.

When dealing with unhelpful employees at other companies, exercise your right to complain - business owners need to be made aware that their service, delivery, etc is not up to spec.

A last thought - Embrace and give change a chance, find the opportunity and turn the negative to your advantage.

[sterne.law@gmail.com]

BBBEE will law will always cause debate.
A few things to clear up -
Nothing forces you to comply - unless you are a government agency.
To say that the government has had 17 years to balance things out is some what harsh. Group Areas act was not the first and the only piece of legislation that discriminated. Legislation dates back to 1810 and some of it makes the Group Areas Act seem "nice" So to expect 200 years of wrong to be corrected in 17 is non sensical. By the same token it does not mean we should wait 200 years!!!!!!!
There is no COMPULSORY element of BBBEE that says you must have Black ownership!!! You can score your points through other stuff, in fact a company should get at least 65% without hassle. Black ownership was/is the shortcut method and probably the biggest fault with the "system". It was for this reason that BEE was changed to BBBEE - to move away from top down to bottom up approach.
It is this top down approach that leads to incapable people being in middle, senior and executive positions, which in turn leads to resentment and also means that those that are capable are cast in the same pot, some what unfairly.
Company' s that have and are adopting the bottom up approach, that is spend time and money on the training, perhaps bursaries(which score spoints on social side) may not benefit as quickly but build a more solid and stable work environment that is sustainable.
BBBEE is probably once agin an example of good intention and thought process but poor execution fueled by the quick fix mentality.

[GuyP]

1. Ownership
2. Management & Control
3. Employment Equity
4. Skills Development
5. Procurement
6. Enterprise Development
7. Socio-Economic Development

Precisely KimH.

I am now spending more time on enterprise development, socio-economic development and even determining how to reduce my carbon footprint. What I hope to give, in an involved way rather than a CSI tickbox, I find I am bound to receive on the other end by an increased ability to attract even international business because of increasingly developed 2nd and 3rd bottom lines. This may be in the way of anything from business, to international funding.

[BusFact]

Fanie, I have had (and sometimes still do have) the same feelings and views as you have expressed. However KimH has given a most sensible reply.

You are free to ignore BEE in your business. You will lose some customers, but should ultimately survive if you run a good operation.

I have decided to simply think of it as a form of tax that one has to pay for doing business in SA. I have to pay a few grand each year for the verification and maybe have to do some admin around it. Just like VAT, PAYE, UIF, Income tax, SDL, COID, company audit and trying to sort out municipal account stuff ups.

However I don't have to give any company control away. As KimH has mentioned, we simply choose sections that don't involve company control. If your turnover is under R5million, you don't even have to choose, you are already sorted.

I even have to admit it may give me some positive results. Its made me look at what they want to evaluate and one section for example is training. This is something my staff should be doing anyway, but now its given me some focus by forcing me to look at it and stop procrastinating.

I don't think you can blame bad service on BEE. Any half decent company will train their frontline staff properly irrespective if they were employed to satisfy BEE requirements or not.

However you look at it, BEE is just not worthing getting stressed over unless your whole business involves government tenders and each point is critical. You have more important and influential things to worry about.

[Dave A]

I think what concerns me most about the OP is the implied connection between color and competence. The two are totally unrelated - the real connection is between training/education/experience and competence.

When I was visiting Spain, I could not speak a word of Spanish and it did make things tricky. It certainly didn't make me any less intelligent.

The OP doesn't like BEE. I don't like BEE. But as long as you frame competence levels along racial lines you're actually validating BEE's existence.

[BusFact]

But as long as you frame competence levels along racial lines you're actually validating BEE's existence.

Now thats an excellent point. Hadn't thought of it like that before.

[Fanie]

When I was visiting Spain, I could not speak a word of Spanish and it did make things tricky. It certainly didn't make me any less intelligent.

In SA they would have made you receptionist to qualify for BEE !

If you are not capable of doing a job then you must not be appointed in the post. There is a jealousy from blacks because white people have certain abilities. Take pilots for instance, black people does not have the ability or the judgement to do professional flying. So why MUST there be black pilots ? Does it really matter HOW many white vs black pilots there are - and why does it matter ? There are many jobs that black people excell in, but I do not hear whites crying about it !

the real connection is between training/education/experience and competence

Absolutely ! If you go into a shop to buy something, do you expect the person who is going to help you do so in a sensible way or are you content with, after wasting your time, eh eh eh eish I will cal the boss kind of thing ?

It does not matter if the guy in a post is green or blue - if he does the job best then he is in the right position. It does not work in SA unfortunately.

I do not think the reason for BEE is to distribute work fairly, it is a one way valve only.

[AndyD]

Phone private companies and just hear how their phones are answered. Then try to get technical information from Philamon who is the 'expert' on the floor but hardly knows what you're talking about. (and no, not ALL of them are incompetent - but most are ! ).

The last two or three times I got rained on I was wearing my springbok rugby jersey therefore it must be my springbok rugby jersey that causes it to rain. It doesn't always rain when I wear it but I'm convinced it has an effect on the weather most of the time.
If you can see a hole in this statement you'll understand why I see a hole in yours. Just because you had bad experiences with service assistants who were black it doesn't follow that their skin colour is the problem or even that most black service assistants are incompetent.

There is a jealousy from blacks because white people have certain abilities. Take pilots for instance, black people does not have the ability or the judgement to do professional flying.

This sounds to me like you're claiming black people are biologically inferior and you're also suggesting that they know it and harbour ill feelings against white people because of it. I'm at least going to ask you to come up with some credible evidence to back up your opinion. In fact it would be great if you could show some evidence for these next two statements as well please.

Why are competent whites still laid off so blacks can take their place - mostly a lesser capable person

There is a reason why 8 million of the 12 million whities already left SA, and this is one of the reasons.

[Fanie]

The last two or three times I got rained on I was wearing my springbok rugby jersey therefore it must be my springbok rugby jersey that causes it to rain. It doesn't always rain when I wear it but I'm convinced it has an effect on the weather most of the time.
If you can see a hole in this statement you'll understand why I see a hole in yours. Just because you had bad experiences with service assistants who were black it doesn't follow that their skin colour is the problem or even that most black service assistants are incompetent.



This sounds to me like you're claiming black people are biologically inferior and you're also suggesting that they know it and harbour ill feelings against white people because of it. I'm at least going to ask you to come up with some credible evidence to back up your opinion. In fact it would be great if you could show some evidence for these next two statements as well please.

How did biology get into this ? I'm not claiming black people are inferior in any way - but they are under developed to perform in posts they are employed in as a preference to white people. It is the same as expecting YOU to be able to do what I do, you cannot, but you still get put into such a post whether you can or not.

Let me give you some credible evidence -

The government has GIVEN hundreds of farms to black farmers to date. It was on Tv a little while ago that the last three is now also on the edge of bancrupsy. The minister was showed very upset wondering why a brand new tractor was sold for R 15 000 by the 'farmer', animals dying of thirst. Not a single farm was sucsessfull. All these farmers had the same excuse 'No but the gaverment did not give us money to farm'.

Do you have any idea what white farmers came home to after the war ? Nothing ! Their houses were burnt to the ground. There was no live stock alive, whatever they had was destroyed. How come these people stood back up without government help, without disater funds, without any money and without any posessions !

If they WERE THE SAME they would have sat in a straw or muddy leanto waiting for something to happen to enhance the conditions.

You have to think about a few things to realise there are differences between different races in SA. Also the quicker you begin to realise that all people are not equal the sooner you will realise we have all different abilities. You cannot force someone to have the same abilities that someone else has, and this is what BEE does !

The redicule of the situation in SA is that around 3500 farmers were murdered to date. Do you know what 3500 people in a place looks like ? You claim you are a rugby fan, how does 3500 people in a group look like ! The government did squat to date to protect the food source of our country (never mind the persons) with the result that we have gone from exporters of produce to importers. No farmer no food.

This is the same as you woking where you do but now you have to pay the boss to be able to work there. In my opinion no government with any kind of integrity would stand for something like this. Don't tell me we are the same - a different government would firstly protect the assets of the country then worry about what they can gain personally !

Whe I was doing military service I remember, if a farmer had drought troubles the army brought water and feed for the animals because that farmer is our bread and butter (in case you don't know where it comes from). This non thinking government doesn't think so.

How many examples do you need ! South Africa is not in a recession for the same reason the rest of the world is ! We should not be in a recession at all - in fact, South Africa should be cashing in on the rest of the world !

Here, look at this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuEc-nFULY8
White and black people do not think alike. Sorry, blame God, perhaps his sense of humour.

My opinion - (similar as HF Verwoerd said many years ago). I say the few whites in the country cannot run and maintain the whole country. Black people has to become educated and litterated and skilled so that we as a country can build and flourish. And BEE is not helping - it's ruining.