The BEE issue

[Fanie]

There are 7 Elected Elements of which you need to choose 4 - the options are:

1. Ownership
2. Management & Control
3. Employment Equity
4. Skills Development
5. Procurement
6. Enterprise Development
7. Socio-Economic Development

Kim, I don't know what position you have in your company, but let me explain it perhaps in another way.
What you have in your home is something that you and your husband/wife gathered over some time. It is your's and you worked to have what you have, right ?

Now - an outsider of a different ethnic group is going to move into your house and expects any of the four points on your list to be enforced in his favour - or your accounts double the end of the month. No come on, think about if for a minute. Apply BEE inside your home and see if you are staying or moving.

In a business that you don't own or where you did not spend your own blood sweat and tears to get where it is today it is easy to 'give away'. Most of the big business guys doesn't care as long as het gets more contracts and makes more money, but there are those that is proud of their humble 'achivement', for what it's woth any way.

[tec0]

Fanie -> I have lost more companies that I care to remember, what I personally know is with a "partner" that has no real interest in your company is that they “close down” and “liquidate” and normally one is left with nothing. That was my first and last experience with this “system”.

Yes family took over a few of my ventures and yes it was steered to the ground but again I am an easy soft person so... In my life I have made about 3 people very rich and was rewarded with a “notice” because I was considered a “threat”. I fired myself on a few occasions.

I even worked for free for one of South Africa’s largest companies in hope of employment and I was forfeited due to my pigmentation. I have paid for studies “very expensive studies” got “good” qualifications based on the national qualifications framework or NQF “I stand to be corrected” and had contract work for a view months then the “policies changed” and I basically lost what little I had left.

Now I am a degenerate gambler, my health is a joke and I am trying to get my “new” business going as my old one is indeed facing a slow execution as I cannot compete against large corporations and there low prices and good standing with the “system”

Slowly everything is slipping away, it like trying to hang onto hot water. In the end I find that things are just close to impossible.

So just be happy you have what you have. And try to hang on to it “responsibly”

Don’t get mad get educated, there is so much we don’t know and maybe, just maybe you will stumble onto a brilliant way to deal with problems and then set an example for others to follow.

[Fanie]

The last two or three times I got rained on I was wearing my springbok rugby jersey therefore it must be my springbok rugby jersey that causes it to rain. It doesn't always rain when I wear it but I'm convinced it has an effect on the weather most of the time.
If you can see a hole in this statement you'll understand why I see a hole in yours. Just because you had bad experiences with service assistants who were black it doesn't follow that their skin colour is the problem or even that most black service assistants are incompetent.



This sounds to me like you're claiming black people are biologically inferior and you're also suggesting that they know it and harbour ill feelings against white people because of it. I'm at least going to ask you to come up with some credible evidence to back up your opinion. In fact it would be great if you could show some evidence for these next two statements as well please.

How did biology get into this ? I'm not claiming black people are inferior in any way - but they are under developed to perform in posts they are employed in as a preference to white people. It is the same as expecting YOU to be able to do what I do, you cannot, but you still get put into such a post whether you can or not.

Let me give you some credible evidence -

The government has GIVEN hundreds of farms to black farmers to date. It was on Tv a little while ago that the last three is now also on the edge of bancrupsy. The minister was showed very upset wondering why a brand new tractor was sold for R 15 000 by the 'farmer', animals dying of thirst. Not a single farm was sucsessfull. All these farmers had the same excuse 'No but the gaverment did not give us money to farm'.

Do you have any idea what white farmers came home to after the war ? Nothing ! Their houses were burnt to the ground. There was no live stock alive, whatever they had was destroyed. How come these people stood back up without government help, without disater funds, without any money and without any posessions !

If they WERE THE SAME they would have sat in a straw or muddy leanto waiting for something to happen to enhance the conditions.

You have to think about a few things to realise there are differences between different races in SA. Also the quicker you begin to realise that all people are not equal the sooner you will realise we have all different abilities. You cannot force someone to have the same abilities that someone else has, and this is what BEE does !

The redicule of the situation in SA is that around 3500 farmers were murdered to date. Do you know what 3500 people in a place looks like ? You claim you are a rugby fan, how does 3500 people in a group look like ! The government did squat to date to protect the food source of our country (never mind the persons) with the result that we have gone from exporters of produce to importers. No farmer no food.

This is the same as you woking where you do but now you have to pay the boss to be able to work there. In my opinion no government with any kind of integrity would stand for something like this. Don't tell me we are the same - a different government would firstly protect the assets of the country then worry about what they can gain personally !

Whe I was doing military service I remember, if a farmer had drought troubles the army brought water and feed for the animals because that farmer is our bread and butter (in case you don't know where it comes from). This non thinking government doesn't think so.

How many examples do you need ! South Africa is not in a recession for the same reason the rest of the world is ! We should not be in a recession at all - in fact, South Africa should be cashing in on the rest of the world !

Here, look at this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuEc-nFULY8
White and black people do not think alike. Sorry, blame God, perhaps his sense of humour.

My opinion - (similar as HF Verwoerd said many years ago). I say the few whites in the country cannot run and maintain the whole country. Black people has to become educated and litterated and skilled so that we as a country can build and flourish. And BEE is not helping - it's ruining.

[tec0]

Right, just one tiny little question... how are labour brokers not exploiting minorities? You make a wonderful argument but the truth is, I remember some stupid idea of people working together. It was a first attempt of a “Volks Staat” and do you know what happened?

Well white people exploited other white people to a degree where it resembled slavery. The rich and powerful gave the “workers” so little that they couldn’t live and by force they couldn’t leave. Eventually the system broke down “yes there were much more elements but the short of it is; not everything is everyone’s fault.

Remember this “if” South Africa fails we "all of us!!!" fail with it...

Being brash about it, is not helping...

[Fanie]

Hi Tec0,

Sorry about your misfortunes.
I may not be able to help much, except maybe with a message !

[Fanie]

Right, just one tiny little question... how are labour brokers not exploiting minorities? You make a wonderful argument but the truth is, I remember some stupid idea of people working together. It was a first attempt of a “Volks Staat” and do you know what happened?

Well white people exploited other white people to a degree where it resembled slavery. The rich and powerful gave the “workers” so little that they couldn’t live and by force they couldn’t leave. Eventually the system broke down “yes there were much more elements but the short of it is; not everything is everyone’s fault.

Remember this “if” South Africa fails we "all of us!!!" fail with it...

Being brash about it, is not helping...

The 'volstaat' you refer to is probably what is known today as 'Orania' ?
As I have it that is where whites are enslaving whites.
I didn't know there was even a system, but I'm sure any one working there has the right to leave any time they want. It may not the highest flyer on the block, but at least it's a bit of a home to some less fortunate people.

[Fanie]

When dealing with unhelpful employees at other companies, exercise your right to complain - business owners need to be made aware that their service, delivery, etc is not up to spec.

A last thought - Embrace and give change a chance, find the opportunity and turn the negative to your advantage.

In some cases the complaining helps. The one co said they have sent the person for training to answer a phone on a course for three times already. They fired her eventually - and the problem was not that she couldn't do the job. I had a brief conversation with her when I was there. She was just terrorising the co by putting customers on hold indeffenate, or just say they are not available, doesn't give messages etc etc .

As for giving change a chance -

We did, when this gov came to power I though hey, people are hungry to improve on the old crappy national party, any change will be an improvement. This was however not the case.

I cannot think of anything that wasn't disfunctional ever since the anc came to power. Nothing gets built up. The gov is so insecure that they even change town and province names and SA had to get the ANC flag. You cannot for ever keep on blaming the same old problems from the past over and over again - at some stage you have to take responsibility for the wrongs and begin to set things right. This however is never going to happen under this government.

[tec0]

The 'volstaat' you refer to is probably what is known today as 'Orania' ?
As I have it that is where whites are enslaving whites.
I didn't know there was even a system, but I'm sure any one working there has the right to leave any time they want. It may not the highest flyer on the block, but at least it's a bit of a home to some less fortunate people.

Actually it was long before the times of now. Well the short of it was that some mentalities wanted to be free from the ruling party “back in what most 90 year olds will call the great depression”. It wasn’t fun times but there were no majorities calling the shots back in those days. Nope people worked for nearly nothing and then the
"supper rich" decided ok that they will employ anyone willing to work on their farms.

At first it seemed like a good plan BUT soon people got paid little to no money and others had to grateful because they had “something” When the people started to leave the farms to work at the local factories it was then where “some” but not all was hold back by force. Eventually the government of that time took control and matters where resolved.

The point I am making is that corruption is a mind set, money is colour-blind and there will always be some people that get the short end of everything. So I say get educated and deal with the situation intelligently. Solutions have the tendency to present itself it is just timing...

With a proper mindset and education one will identify this solution and make it work.

On a personal note, Giving up is not part of my programming.

[KimH]

Kim, I don't know what position you have in your company, but let me explain it perhaps in another way.
What you have in your home is something that you and your husband/wife gathered over some time. It is your's and you worked to have what you have, right ?

Now - an outsider of a different ethnic group is going to move into your house and expects any of the four points on your list to be enforced in his favour - or your accounts double the end of the month. No come on, think about if for a minute. Apply BEE inside your home and see if you are staying or moving.

In a business that you don't own or where you did not spend your own blood sweat and tears to get where it is today it is easy to 'give away'. Most of the big business guys doesn't care as long as het gets more contracts and makes more money, but there are those that is proud of their humble 'achivement', for what it's woth any way.

Fanie, you still appear to be missing the point, please allow me to clarify,… as with most things in our lives that befall us, we have no control over them, however, what we do have control over, is how we respond to these things.

Put another way: “Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can, And wisdom to know the difference”.

Or even another way: “Life gave me lemons,…..so I made Lemonade”, the point being that this is not about the government, other ethnic groups or even BBBEE,… its about you/your business, and how you take on the challenge and either overcome or compromise.

Just for the record, I would react to any group, (be they of the same ethnic group or not, to myself, not even sure why that matters), moving into my house, the same way as I would my business dealings: “Attack, attack, adapt, overcome”, (With the emphasis being on that “attack” relates to attacking the problem, not the person. “Adapt” could mean my attitude, my strategy, or my viewpoint, and “overcome” means resolving an issue to an acceptable outcome, I don’t have to like this outcome, I just have to be able to live and work with it.

Seeing as how I have already abused cliché’s, a few more of relevance won’t really matter: “Adapt or die”, “Principles are great, they just don’t pay the rent or put food on the table”

[Martinco]

I cannot think of anything that wasn't disfunctional ever since the anc came to power. Nothing gets built up. The gov is so insecure that they even change town and province names and SA had to get the ANC flag. You cannot for ever keep on blaming the same old problems from the past over and over again - at some stage you have to take responsibility for the wrongs and begin to set things right. This however is never going to happen under this government.

Hear Hear !

( We have not had refuse removal for 2 weeks now. " The truck she is broken " )