Administration order application

[Dave A]

I've just received notice from a debtor who is applying for an administration order. Reading the details, I can't help thinking of reckless credit and the NCA. Of course, the identity of the applicant I won't mention, and a full list of the creditors does not add much value to the main thrust of this post.

But let's take a look at what he owes financial institutions:

• Nedbank loan R9384.51
• Standard Bank credit card R16138.06
• African Bank loan R4699.62 (the residue of a previous administration order by the looks of it)
• Nedbank bond R76709.48 (monthly instalments R1275.47 on a property listed as valued at R81 000.00).

And then we have the stores:

• Over R2000.00 for jewelry not listed in the assets
• About R4500.00 for clothing not listed in the assets

I seem to be the only unsettled cost of sale on his previous property - a case of the conveyancor neglecting to pay us out of proceeds - I note everyone else got their money

And then there's Ethekwini Metro.... water apparently.

If my maths is right, I can look forward to getting R3.23 per month over the next 12 years.

Anyone want to take a guess at what this guy's monthly salary is?

[duncan drennan]

* Nedbank bond R76709.48 (monthly instalments R1275.47 on a property listed as valued at R81 000.00).

Based purely on that I'm going to take a flyer at R4800/month?

[Dave A]

Too high. At an instalment of about 25% of income, that might have made sense.

[duncan drennan]

Too high. At an instalment of about 25% of income, that might have made sense.

Okay, I worked on 27% and rounded up...my mistake

Working this way, R1280 + R800 (5% of R16000, min repayment rate) + R250 (estimate repayment on Nedbank R10k personal loan over 54 months) + R150 (for African bank loan) + R400 (for clothing/jewellery accounts)....

Let's make it a round R3000 repayments (absolute minimum) per month.

And I've been under estimating the amounts that he owes on those loans, so my next guess for salary is......(drumroll).....R3500??

[Dave A]

Closer. Much closer. Actually R3950.00 per month. The bond instalment bite probably comes from interest rate hikes. It's the credit card in particular that blows me away. More than 4 times monthly salary

EDIT: And I haven't mentioned - 5 dependants!

[duncan drennan]

Closer. Much closer. Actually R3950.00 per month. The bond instalment bite probably comes from interest rate hikes. It's the credit card in particular that blows me away. More than 4 times monthly salary

EDIT: And I haven't mentioned - 5 dependants!

It's pretty scary!

I would guess that his levels of debt servicing are above his monthly income, and with that level of income I'm also guessing that there is not much hope of a sudden increase to his cash flow.

I don't think I would be able to sleep at night

[Sieg]

Administration Orders

Dave: If you have the time and inclination, go to Court on the day of the hearing and oppose the application on the basis that the Applicant (the debtor) has not made full disclosure of his / her assets.

If your claim is relatively small, (compared to the others) the debtor may just "find" the funds to pay you (i.e. to get rid of you) so that he / she can go ahead with the application.

Also, why did the conveyancer not pay you? I thought you guys in the industry (electrical and ento) always make sure the conveyancer keeps you "covered". If the estate agent instructed you, then maybe you have a claim against that party? Don't you want to "name and shame" the conveyancers and / or estate agents concerned?

If the conveyancer (who is a qualifed attorney and is a member of the applicable provincial law society) gave you an undertaking, it would be unprofessional conduct to not make payment which is reportable to the law society of which the attorney / conveyancer is a member.


Sieg

[Dave A]

Thanks for the advice, Sieg. It did cross my mind to wander past the hearing

Also, why did the conveyancer not pay you? I thought you guys in the industry (electrical and ento) always make sure the conveyancer keeps you "covered". If the estate agent instructed you, then maybe you have a claim against that party? Don't you want to "name and shame" the conveyancers and / or estate agents concerned?

If the conveyancer (who is a qualifed attorney and is a member of the applicable provincial law society) gave you an undertaking, it would be unprofessional conduct to not make payment which is reportable to the law society of which the attorney / conveyancer is a member.

Conveyancers aren't always that good on the undertaking side - we take a risk management approach. Test fees, the low numbers, we don't harass the conveyancer but we do get the client to sign. Once we get to repair and treatment bills, that's where we get the conveyancer undertaking.

But even then, it is not as simple as that when the wheels come off. The seller directly instructs the conveyancer not to pay us, or that they have already paid us (when they have not) and the conveyancer does not check with us, or the conveyancer is changed at the last moment...

I have noticed though that some conveyancers seem to "attract" more trouble than others. As always, when things go wrong, it is someone else's fault and getting anyone who has already been paid their money interested enough to help you prove otherwise is the devil's own job.

[Dave A]

A suggestion of using an adminstration order to remove a garnishee order reminded me of this thread where I have some news.

A month ago the debtor made application for the administration order to be rescinded. Listed as the defendants were all the creditors and the administrator

I never got a cent, and it seems no-one else did too if there were no dispersments.

On an original debt of R465.00 written off long ago and frankly long forgotten, it certainly wasn't worth my while responding or pursuing further. But I did idly wonder just what the adminstrator actually did for the past four years.

[Justloadit]

On an original debt of R465.00 written off long ago and frankly long forgotten, it certainly wasn't worth my while responding or pursuing further. But I did idly wonder just what the adminstrator actually did for the past four years.

He has waited for everyone to forget, so that all the loot becomes his