Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 11

Thread: It's not how much money in the system that makes an economy...

  1. #1
    Site Caretaker Dave A's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Durban, South Africa
    Posts
    20,978
    Thanks
    3,055
    Thanked 2,462 Times in 2,067 Posts
    Blog Entries
    12

    It's not how much money in the system that makes an economy...

    Reading a post on how the Irish bailout package works, I was reminded that -

    It's not how much money in the system that makes an economy, it's how it moves!
    The trouble with opportunity is it normally comes dressed up as work.

  2. #2
    Diamond Member AndyD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Cape Town
    Posts
    4,401
    Thanks
    513
    Thanked 854 Times in 687 Posts
    Very cleverly put.
    _______________________________________________
    I am special and so is Vanash.
    _______________________________________________

  3. #3
    Email problem
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Glenvista Johannesburg
    Posts
    14
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Hi All

    Question here

    has anyone studied Section 25 of the Bills of Exchange Act


    "The Bait and Switch"

    You walk into a car dealership. You see a Toyota Corolla. On the window is a poster with the make, model, year, mileage and price. That is an offer, right? So why, are you asked to sign an offer to purchase instead of simply accepting their offer to sell?

    Why are YOU the one making an offer for an item that does not belong to you?

    You go to a coastal town for a holiday. You walk past an estate agent. On the window are pictures of beach condos. One in particular looks really nice - a two bedroom, two bathroom unit with sea view and lock-up garage. The seller is offering just R1,2 million. Sounds good, so you go inside and chat to one of the friendly, attractive ladies: "Would you like to make the owner an offer?" she asks...

    Do you see the difference? They make you sign an offer to purchase and, under common / natural law, this is impossible. If you go to church or a temple or religious place to make an offer and you don't have the thing to offer, then it is not legitimate!

    What I am talking about here is one of the greatest banking scams you have ever seen. Although it is totally unlawful, it is not illegal, and it is done every day all over the world.

    When you want to sell something, you put an ad in the paper that says: I am offering my old dining room table for R750. Someone comes along and accepts your offer. They pay you and that's it - the deal is done. No tax, no transfer duty, no legal fees, no title swapping... no third party interlopers. The item is now theirs.

    ...but homes and cars are different. There is big money in big ticket items and the lawyers and the government want their share. So they give you a fraudulent document to sign. Yes, you heard me, it is fraud, yet everyone does it and nobody notices.

    There are three very important reasons for tricking you into making an offer to purchase instead of allowing you to accept an ordinary offer to sell:

    It forces you, the buyer, to give your power of attorney to a lawyer to act on your behalf;
    It puts YOU in the obligatory position to perform;
    It allows the government to own your land.
    If you made the offer to purchase on your home or car, then you cannot possibly be the true owner of it. Why do you think it is called Real Estate? Real = Realty. Realty = Regis = Royalty. They are dealing with the Royal's estate.

    I cannot stress the importance of this little charade. Your offer to purchase is totally meaningless. BUT... by giving your power of attorney away, you move out of common law and into civil / statute / admiralty law. It then becomes nothing more than a commercial game of musical chairs and the government takes a fat % and so do the lawyers. You dance, and they collect. And none of it is real.

    This clever little technique of taking you out of Common Law and placing you into the mirror image of statute law is called Bait and Switch. You are baited with an offer, then just as you move in to accept it, they quickly switch it. It is a crime, but you are none the wiser.

    It gets worse. Thanks to this technique you will only ever have beneficial title on your property. This means that when the title is registered (register = regis) it is owned by the state. You merely have the privilege of using your house / car and are responsible for the liabilities on it.

    "Try not paying your taxes to see who really owns your house." -- Peter Fonda

    Why can police impound your car? Because is not your car, it is theirs. How can police come into your house? Because is not your property, it is theirs.

    We should keep our transactions in Common Law by accepting offers to sell instead of making offers to purchase. And, instead of registering them, we should record them at the Deeds Office

  4. #4
    Diamond Member adrianh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Cape Town
    Posts
    5,089
    Thanks
    336
    Thanked 808 Times in 642 Posts
    I'm stuggling to get my mind around this - why is there such a difference?

    There are three very important reasons for tricking you into making an offer to purchase instead of allowing you to accept an ordinary offer to sell:

    It forces you, the buyer, to give your power of attorney to a lawyer to act on your behalf;
    It puts YOU in the obligatory position to perform;
    It allows the government to own your land.
    If you made the offer to purchase on your home or car, then you cannot possibly be the true owner of it. Why do you think it is called Real Estate? Real = Realty. Realty = Regis = Royalty. They are dealing with the Royal's estate.
    Why is this so?
    How easily someone is offended is directly proportional to how stupid they are.
    ~GS Elevator

  5. #5
    Gold Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Johannesburg
    Posts
    832
    Thanks
    180
    Thanked 176 Times in 145 Posts
    These sort of philosophical questions come up all the time. There may be some truth in the theory, but in reality how does one really expect to implement this vein of thought?

    Are you going to enter into a debate with Constable whoever as to who owns the property? Is he going to really care if he already has good reason to enter?

    I'd like to see you try and explain to SARS that they are not getting their cut on your property sale, because of some technicality. You have the right to argue ... you'll just need plenty of time and money to do so.

    ... And if you do win the case after many years .... they'll just change the loophole (if it exists) in the legislation.

  6. #6
    Gold Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Johannesburg
    Posts
    832
    Thanks
    180
    Thanked 176 Times in 145 Posts
    Now to get this thread back on its orginal track...

    But Dave, aren't these almost always the same thing? Extra money in the system results in it starting to move?

  7. #7
    Site Caretaker Dave A's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Durban, South Africa
    Posts
    20,978
    Thanks
    3,055
    Thanked 2,462 Times in 2,067 Posts
    Blog Entries
    12
    Quote Originally Posted by BusFact View Post
    Now to get this thread back on its orginal track...
    But it's such a fascinating diversion
    Quote Originally Posted by alecmcg View Post
    This clever little technique of taking you out of Common Law and placing you into the mirror image of statute law is called Bait and Switch. You are baited with an offer, then just as you move in to accept it, they quickly switch it.
    Getting the sale offer out of common law could just as easily be achieved by putting in the fairly common "terms and conditions apply" on the sales notice. Is getting the transaction out of common law the real purpose here?

    In theory making an offer to purchase should have some advantages for the purchaser - including the opportunity to set your own terms and price!!

    I don't see how this switch affects taxes, actual ownership, power of attorney issues, right to impound or right to entry either.

    Alec, you raise a great point, but what's the real reason?
    (Probably deserves it's own thread)

    And on the original track:
    Quote Originally Posted by BusFact View Post
    But Dave, aren't these almost always the same thing? Extra money in the system results in it starting to move?
    True, but I'd suggest confidence (enough to pay one's bills with what one has in faith that you'll be paid what you're owed too) could be just as effective without all the negative side effects.

    Ultimately that's all that liquidity does, give us confidence. It doesn't create wealth - that takes all those value trades and money changing hands.
    Last edited by Dave A; 07-Dec-10 at 02:34 PM.
    The trouble with opportunity is it normally comes dressed up as work.

  8. #8
    Diamond Member wynn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    east london
    Posts
    3,338
    Thanks
    548
    Thanked 624 Times in 523 Posts
    When you make an offer to purchase or sell a property, once the document is signed by both parties and witnessed it effectively becomes a 'Deed of Sale' the problem comes in when you want to register the same at the deeds office, it can only be registered by a conveyencer (you have to pay him for his services) once that happens there is no backing out of the deal, you are the new owner, the property is in your name.

    The 'offer to purchase' can be broken but there may be legal implications and may cost you a lot of money, but the property is not in your name and resides with the owner until the dispute is settled.
    "Nobody who has succeeded has not failed along the way"
    Arianna Huffington

    Read the first 10% of my books "Didymus" and "The BEAST of BIKO BRIDGE" for free
    You can also read and download 100% free my short stories "A Real Surprise" and "Pieces of Eight" at
    http://www.smashwords.com/books/view/332256

  9. #9
    Email problem
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Glenvista Johannesburg
    Posts
    14
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Hi Dave an all

    To answer the various questions

    1)



    I'm stuggling to get my mind around this - why is there such a difference?

    There are three very important reasons for tricking you into making an offer to purchase instead of allowing you to accept an ordinary offer to sell:

    Quote:

    It forces you, the buyer, to give your power of attorney to a lawyer to act on your behalf;
    It puts YOU in the obligatory position to perform;
    It allows the government to own your land.
    If you made the offer to purchase on your home or car, then you cannot possibly be the true owner of it. Why do you think it is called Real Estate? Real = Realty. Realty = Regis = Royalty. They are dealing with the Royal's estate.


    Why is this so?





    This is a very good questions, and requires a very long answer: There is a fundamental difference between common law and statute law. This “cross” is detailed in the law book Southern Cross: Civil and Common Law in South Africa. Common Law has always upheld natural law the realm of civil law is all about contracts and money. By signing an offer to purchase, you are put squarely in civil law and this is the domain of the lawyers, the bankers, the government and of course, the commercial courts. This is their jurisdiction and their playing field. Ideally, we as individuals should not play in their playing field, but it is very difficult to avoid.





    2)



    These sort of philosophical questions come up all the time. There may be some truth in the theory, but in reality how does one really expect to implement this vein of thought?



    People overseas have done it. Do you know what a Natis is? It is the document that allows you to truly own your home or vehicle. Most people don’t even know it exists. If you get your Natis and de-register your property, you can live completely free of all levies and other liabilities. Nobody can take your land for any reason what so ever. This has not been done in South Africa to my knowledge and that is why I am so passionate about this.



    Are you going to enter into a debate with Constable whoever as to who owns the property? Is he going to really care if he already has good reason to enter?

    If he as “good reason” under common law (ie. You have hurt someone or stolen something) then by all means he can come in and uphold the law. However, if he is acting on behalf of a civil statute (ie. You haven’t paid your council tax) then he is nothing more than a debt collector and no, he cannot enter your home without your consent.



    I'd like to see you try and explain to SARS that they are not getting their cut on your property sale, because of some technicality. You have the right to argue ... you'll just need plenty of time and money to do so.



    I can take this 10 steps further. I can show you letters that South Africans are sending to SARS that state: “I am giving you the limited power of attorney to complete my tax form for me and discount any amount you feel is reasonable from my unlimited commercial liability as per my national insurance with ID number: xxx.” SARS cannot touch you if you know a) what their role really is




    ... And if you do win the case after many years .... they'll just change the loophole (if it exists) in the legislation.



    Very difficult to do this because it is not a loophole. It is a lawful common law remedy that has existed since the law began and is still used by very elite circles today.





    3)

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by BusFact

    Now to get this thread back on its orginal track...


    But it's such a fascinating diversion

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by alecmcg

    This clever little technique of taking you out of Common Law and placing you into the mirror image of statute law is called Bait and Switch. You are baited with an offer, then just as you move in to accept it, they quickly switch it.


    Getting the sale offer out of common law could just as easily be achieved by putting in the fairly common "terms and conditions apply" on the sales notice. Is getting the transaction out of common law the real purpose here?



    He makes a good point – the real purpose is to get your Natis and ultimately a quiet, equitable title on your land that nobody can touch. I am open to any suggestions as to how this can be done. It has been done overseas, we are a long way behind in South Africa because until now, nobody has looked into how the system works. (Take a look at the latest Noseweek.co.za article on the Sheriffs to see what I mean about how we just lie down and take it).

    Terms and Conditions require an entire article on their own.


    In theory making an offer to purchase should have some advantages for the purchaser - including the opportunity to set your own terms and price!!



    Negotiation can still happen exactly the same way – only the end result is an OTS being drawn up, not an OTP.


    I don't see how this switch affects taxes, actual ownership, power of attorney issues, right to impound or right to entry either.



    See my above point on the cross between civil and statute law. This is absolutely critical in your understanding of law. Civil law is all about contracts and all contracts require offer and acceptance. We do not know the difference between an offer, an order (same thing), and the administration process behind the acceptance of the offer. All the issues you mention above fall into civil law and are not bound to them unless you consent. By registering your title and by signing the offer to purchase instead of the offer to sell, the government can do all those things to you that are listed in the point above.


    Alec, you raise a great point, but what's the re al reason?
    (Probably deserves it's own thread)

    I want the Natis document on my 82ha piece of land in the Natal Midlands. I am building an off-the-grid sustainable community and I want every person living their to have quiet, equitable title on that land. Even if the government wants to build a highway through our land, they will not be able to without our consent. That is the real reason J

  10. #10
    Email problem
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Cape Town
    Posts
    19
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Quote Originally Posted by BusFact View Post
    Now to get this thread back on its orginal track...

    But Dave, aren't these almost always the same thing? Extra money in the system results in it starting to move?
    Almost always, yes, but the almost is big in this case. Consumer confidence has to be there if people are going to spend. You can make everyone rich, but if they do not feel that they can replace the money when they have spent it with new income, they will hold on to it.

    When the US President G.W. Bush had the govt. send out cheques of about $500 to stimulate the economy nothing happened because people put that money into savings rather than running out and flirting with private enterprise.

    So having money in a system vs. it moving around the system are almost the same, but very different.

    Pardon the ramble,
    -Jan

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. A peek inside the SA Reserve Bank
    By Dave A in forum Business Finance Forum
    Replies: 135
    Last Post: 11-Nov-11, 01:11 AM
  2. [Article] Your website is a waste of money!
    By Chatmaster in forum Marketing Forum
    Replies: 37
    Last Post: 28-Nov-10, 03:00 PM
  3. [Article] The only WAY to earn real money online....
    By G Robin in forum General Business Forum
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 17-Sep-10, 01:26 PM
  4. writing a POS system from scratch
    By twinscythe12332 in forum Technology Forum
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 12-Mar-09, 01:56 PM

Did you like this article? Share it with your favourite social network.

Did you like this article? Share it with your favourite social network.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •