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Thread: certificate of compliance again...

  1. #1
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    certificate of compliance again...

    i had an interest enquiry today...

    i was called out to a factory today and asked to verify if the COC issued for the entire factory was valid...now here the joke it is one yellow form.

    all the earth readings 0.1 ohm
    voltage reading 380 volts
    insulation resistance infinity

    i wish i could post it on this site for all to see but unfortunalty it could pose a risk to the factory concerned.

    the factory consists of
    a transfomer
    main DB
    a whole lot of sub DBs
    classified areas
    to to mention a few things

    i had a look at it and replied no its not worth the paper it is written on...so the next question asked by the customer...

    the custome wants to know what will happen if the DOL arrives to do an inspection?

    What happens if there is a fire in the building?

    What if someone is electricuted on site?

    who will be resposible for cost of repairs who will be liable... if there is an equiry and they find the COC invalid?

    and what if the master elctrician who filled out the COC and signed it...is found guilty but doesnt have insurance liability insurance...or would the insurance even pay out if he is found guilty of negligence?

  2. #2
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    i ask everyone out there..

    who knows what an electrical certificate of compliance looks like?

    you should you know what it looks like...you should have it stored away with all your important document...like ID...passports etc...not inthe deeds office.

    Anyone know what colour it is suppose to be and how many pages it consists of?

    ok so you know what colour it is...is it filled in correctly?

    do you know what part of your electrical installation it covers?

    does it cover your house or just part of it?

    some people have as many as 10 COCs for there house...why...because they had the original house certified then had and additional plug installed so the electrician would have done a COC for the new plug installed...

    then they had and A/C unit installed so they had to get the Aircon guy to issue a coc for electrical connection....(not if it is plugged into a socket outlet)

    then they had a swimming pool installed and had to get a coc for the pool DB to be installed and connected.

    then they had electric gates installed and had to get a coc for the 230 volt power supply to the gate.

    then they had the kitchen redone...so all the new power points had to be tested and a COC issued

    you get where i am going with this...

    all i am saying is if you have a coc make sure it is actually valid...i would hate to read a story about a persons kitchen for example burning down and the insurance find that the coc is not valid or is fraudulant and they decide not to pay...you know what they like if your tyre on your vehicle is smooth be it your fault or not they dont pay out...

    and a message to the department of labour...get off your backside and educate the public about COCs and stop trying to palm all the responsiblily off onto private contractors....the AIA dont have the manpower or the financial abilty to take on such a huge resposiblilty....if the the department of labour cant handle the responsibility scrap the COC until they can.

    the rules need to be laid out in a manner that everyone understands and dont have 2 meanings...

  3. #3
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    and there should be different cocs for domestic...commercial and industrial...

    the current coc is targeted at the domestic market which makes it difficult to fill in for industrial applications...and there are tooo many pages of rubbish...filling you name in 5 times doesnt prove anything ....make it to the point...and separate the inspection report from the actual certifacte of compliance

    the COC should be all the information about the property...a clear descption about the parts it covers and who is signing it off.

    the inspection report should be the results of the visual inspection and test results per point ie main db...sub db...plug circuit 1...plug circuit 2...wire size...type of circuit breaker...this will also force inspectors to actually visit the site.

  4. #4
    Email problem 123's Avatar
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    Hi Murdock, trying to answer some of your Q's:

    What happens if there is a fire in the building?

    What if someone is electrocuted on site?

    who will be responsible for cost of repairs who will be liable... if there is an inquiry and they find the COC invalid?

    and what if the master electrician who filled out the COC and signed it...is found guilty but doesn't have insurance liability insurance...or would the insurance even pay out if he is found guilty of negligence?


    First of all, if a building is destroyed/damaged as a result of an electrical problem the insurance WILL PAY OUT. There is not one insurance company in South Africa which can refuse, by law, to pay out such claims/damage caused.
    Whether there is a coc or not. I know it sucks, but that is the way it is.


    So, the cost of repairs will be carried by the insurance company. They are prohibited by law to refuse such claims based on the validity of a piece of paper which consequences is not recognized by the South African Judicial System. Which also sucks, again.

    The MIE, SP or IE who signed the CoC CANNOT be found guilty of anything. Such legislation has not been written or promulgated. If you issue a coc, and the place burns down? You are guilty? No Ways!.

    The DOL, on the other hand, is another animal and breed. If they inspect your installation (premises), the coc must be valid for the type of coc issued, (Remember there are three types of coc's under the current legislation). See IER 2009.

    The DOL, in partnership with the GEIA, (on the other hand) can cause one of a moer of a headache. The GEIA, as we know, are a bunch of bullshatters and law breaking cowboys. The Master (DOL) and the Dog (GEIA) can certainly inflict time consuming keyboarding. Not to mention Legal Costs.

    The DOL, as the ministerial effective, has absolutely NO jurisdiction over any Man, Working Person, Electrician, SP, IE or MIE. Or workmanship, tests, results, documents etc.

    What that means, any seller of a property, or buyer of a property, or owner of a factory, seller of a factory, or factory owner, or whatever, if you have a coc, or not, it does not matter. Your premises, and your people are insured by default. XXX
    If it is not broken, fix/test it until it is.
    This is my opinion and I stick to it.

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    Gold Member Sparks's Avatar
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    True, but keep in mind, the COC (should) be proof that everything is correct thus SAFE to use. 2ndly, The municipality do have the power to disconnect the supply until such time that a COC is submitted (for which a disconnection as well as re-connection fee is applicable of course). The COC is still cheaper than a few days downtime.

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