unsympathetic approach towards employers

[murdock]

by the way...the aids is not the only problem its all the sores and other sicknesses that come from the aids and hiv which are the problem...my sister gets sores all over her body...which turn into welts which ooz puss and liquid...and the coughing etc...all the time.

My 17 month old daughter has had an aids test.

the bottom line is we should have the choice not be told by some law that we cannot make a choice who we want around our children.

My domestic worker should know her staus and the people who look after my daughter at school should also know their status...so that i can choose whether or not i want to keep my child in the class...or if i want the domestic worker to be around my child...my daughter should also have rights...and as she is still too young i will take the responsebility of making those choices for her until she is old enough to make them...my choice i dont want people with aids or any other sickness for that matter around her...including my sister...after the 3 month battle with her in hospital...i will stand by my decision.

what people need to do is go visit one of the hospital like dave did and see how people suffer...then make a decision...watching people suffering in hospital form smoke related illneses helped me give up smoking...8 years now havent touched a cigarette.

[Dave A]

so that i can choose whether or not i want to keep my child in the class...or if i want the domestic worker to be around my child...

That's exactly what gov. doesn't seem to want...

my daughter should also have rights...and as she is still too young i will take the responsebility of making those choices for her until she is old enough to make them...my choice i dont want people with aids or any other sickness for that matter around her...including my sister...after the 3 month battle with her in hospital...i will stand by my decision.

So is Murdock* a criminal? Would this type of discrimination merit being legislated as a criminal offence?

* purely quoted as example - I'm sure many, many people feel the same way.

[tec0]

Scenario

There is actually no right or wrong here. A child needs to be protected at all times. People have the right not to be infected by HIV. Also yes, people with HIV have a right to life, dignity and work.

Now it comes down to acceptance, will you accept an HIV person to work with your children? No you will not because there will always be a risk. Would you allow an employee with HIV to work at your shop, business or home? No because there will always be a risk.

Is this discriminating against the person with HIV? No, It is "being afraid" of what might happen. Now the law tells you different because if the law points to discrimination then you can be hold responsible. But! It was not discrimination It was fear.

But what about the person with HIV? Because of the fear associated with HIV he/she may found themselves in a situation where work would be impossible to find and then there is the fear of isolation. And again because of this fear they don’t tell people...

Now the true question is can you as a HIV negative person OR as a HIV positive person introduce a compromise?

The answer is simple; it comes down to fear.

[murdock]

a sad fact about this country...you are not allowed to discriminate against anyone in this country...except white people.

everyone else in south africa is regarded as black...be it indian...coloured...even chinese you name it...except white people.

hello am i missing something here?

you have a right to refuse smokers but not hiv positive people?

smoking is a heal risk...then what is aids?

[murdock]

Scenario

There is actually no right or wrong here. A child needs to be protected at all times. People have the right not to be infected by HIV. Also yes, people with HIV have a right to life, dignity and work.

Now it comes down to acceptance, will you accept an HIV person to work with your children? No you will not because there will always be a risk. Would you allow an employee with HIV to work at your shop, business or home? No because there will always be a risk.

Is this discriminating against the person with HIV? No, It is "being afraid" of what might happen. Now the law tells you different because if the law points to discrimination then you can be hold responsible. But! It was not discrimination It was fear.

But what about the person with HIV? Because of the fear associated with HIV he/she may found themselves in a situation where work would be impossible to find and then there is the fear of isolation. And again because of this fear they don’t tell people...

Now the true question is can you as a HIV negative person OR as a HIV positive person introduce a compromise?

The answer is simple; it comes down to fear.

i have no fear for people with aids...i have a family member who has aids...i just feel it is my responsiblity to keep my daughter safe...the pool for example has a 9 ft fence around it and i have sent her for swimming lessons...i have taken precaution...i never leave my daughter with the dogs...he is an 86 kg boer bull chances are he will never harm her...i take the precaution never to leave her with the dog on her own...we all play together but never on her own...my daughter has a car seat which she travels in at ALL times..a precaution...and not having people or other children near her who have aids...just a precaution...so by taking precaution i will now be come a crimminal... only in africa

if she grows up and decides to marry a man with aids or employ people with aids then it becomes her choice...but for as long as she is in my care i will take precautions...and protect her with my life what ever it takes.

[tec0]

I can understand and respect that but I am willing to bet that your precautions were contemplated on worst case scenarios? The dog just might attack, you see the images in your head and now you make sure that the chances of that happening is basically zero.

But what was the feeling you got when those images was played out in your mind? Still I personally see nothing wrong with your actions. That being said I am sure that there are people that are afraid of what might happen... In the end of the day we are only human.

[sterne.law@gmail.com]

Hard questions. I do not disagree, where people are aware, and everyone should know their status, they should be considering other peoples health and doing everything not to spread the infections.
So you would have no problem if no one wanted to employ your sister? You would not think that unfair? Would you allow your own children to be around her? After all this is the crux of the thread.

[murdock]

let me start by telling you my sister doesnt touch my little daughter nor does she go near her...my older 2 children 18 and 20...make their own choices...she respects how i feel about it...i have no problem with her being around...like at braais and stuff but no physical contact...with the little one...and you gona tell me drinking from the same glass etc etc you dont catch aids or hiv...trust me i know the drill...each time i get tested i have to go for the councilling before i get the results...back to what i mentioned in the post above...precaution.

about employing her...i dont have a problem employing my sister to work in the office or that type of enviroment...as she does at the moment...she does data capturing.

employing her to look after my daughter...unfortunatly not.

i will give you another example if i found out my assistant had aids i would have to get rid of him or just move him to a different position or to work with one of the othe rstaff who also have aids...because of my line of work...i do lots of physical labour and tend to bleed from cuts...like this morning i drilled thru a plate and a sharp piece nicked my finger causing it to bleed...last week i got a small cut on my head i bled like anything all over my face...it would be a precaution not having a person with aids working with me.

now if i was a lawyer for example it wouldnt bother me if my fellow office staff all had aids...because that line of work doesnt include physical labour...chances of you cutting yourself from your pencil or opening a can of cooldrink are pretty slim...i hope

think about this one...one of the people who works in the office with you has aids but you dont know because they dont tell you...everyday after work you play squash with him or her...one day you collide and bang head and there is blood everywhere...you contract aids from the incedent...would you still have played squash with them knowing they had aids...and knowing it could happen? dont you feel you have the right to know?

and another one...the guy in the office doesnt tell you has aids...the 2 of you are driving together off to watch the match between bafana and france...you are involved in a motor vehicle accident...you not knowing he has aids...because he chose not to tell you...both of you are bleeding you automatically you help him without gloves on...not even suspecting that he has aids...and now get aids from the incident...dont you think you have a right to know so you could have taken precaution.

if aids wasnt such a big isssue why are soccer players removed immediately from the field if they bleed and why do all the medical personel wear gloves?

we could go on and on...

my point is while i am responsible for my little daughters care...i feel i have a right to know the staus of people who look after her and should be able to choose...i will take what ever precaution neccessary to protect her...and that goes for anything not only aids...if i see a person has been drinking for example they will not go near her or pick her up.

by the way the law was passed today.

[murdock]

for those who dont know why i feel so strongly about the teacher and assistance at school...and actually feel it should be a criminal offence not informing the school of your status and other child related criminal offences.

the employment crteria should also include child molester charges checks etc

if you know what is involved in looking after a toddler beside patching a cut or something

constant physical contact picking the children and carrying them around

a toodle get washed at school which involves their private parts...

before putting the nappy on... cream must be applied to the toddlers private parts

i would rather be safe than sorry...what i always tell my kids once it has happened it is already tooooooooo late.

hiv and aids kills and it is a slow painful death...it is the worst punishment you could impose on another human being....

[Butch Hannan]

Why not try home schooling if your wife does not work. My daughter is doing it very successfully with her two children.
This would solve a lot of the problems that parents experience in our school system.