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Thread: Insurance could easily get out of paying via By Law 25

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    Gold Member garthu's Avatar
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    Insurance could easily get out of paying via By Law 25

    In the last few weeks I have been researching alternative income streams, since my past is electronics in audio and security, have been looking into both.

    Heres what troubles me a lot! The fact is i doubt any one of us (our isn't and it was originally installed by large security company) has a "by law 25" compliant alarm system at home. Insurance policies state on the them that the alarm system must be "by law 25" compliant - not a certificate issued etc, just compliant.

    Heres a few quick checks - Is the main control panel, ariel etc mounted at least 1.5m AWAY from the ceiling?? I dont think i have ever seen one that is. They are normally a foot or few inches away from the ceiling in the cupboard. Is that same equipment monitored by movement sensor in its area and the sensor cannot be seen from outside (now most are in a cupboard and there is never a sensor in the cupboard. Further, the motion detector is normally visible from the outside in the bedroom somehow as well)

    How about this - is your alarm system "DOWN LOADABLE" from the control room. In other words can they (the security company armed response) view exact data on where the alarm occurred (which room), can they isolate a problem circuit remotely, can they activate your alarm from the control room, view troubled conditions (doesnt even specify troubled), view siren defect issues (not sure there is a system that can even do this).

    If you have garden beams with a shunt (remote system of arming/disarm like a gate remote), this would, according to the law, make the entire system. non compliant. Considering this is about the only way of effectively arming them,

    Is your control panel date and time stamped with min 128 event memory - doubt it, they cost a pretty penny more.

    All your sensors terminated with line resistors (dont worry about that but i have never seen one done properly then)

    Bottom line in half an hour i can pick out a whole range of reasons as to why insurance could turn and say no. Attorneys would have a field day with this if they wanted to deny a claim!

    Dunno, but i would suggest that advising your insurance it is not BL25 compliant would be right - then good luck with your premiums...

    What really grates me is that BL25 and the way alarms are installed stop tell you when the thief is in the house - its a bit late. Systems that can tell you they are on the property, would appear to be non compliant.
    Garth

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    I was thinking of getting myself a good alarm system. One of those wireless systems because my house is a rental and I don’t want to damage anything. Secondly I was planning on using a remote arming disarming system because it is just better then to run around in a dark house to get to the code panel and break your neck while doing it. Thirdly it is mainly an early warning system so that I can get my crossbow, shotgun, milk and cookies ready for any unwanted guest. “The milk and cookies is for me”

    I never intended to get a better insurance payment out of all of this! But darn it! I want to sleep at night knowing that something is watching over us. Now they can actually void my insurance just because I want a peaceful night’s rest! Hell no! Then why do I need insurance in the first darn place if they just want to take my money every moth!

    Then I will just say “Sorry no alarm system.” If they see the alarm system then I will tell them a nice BS story. Or I will tell them I want an alarm system and if you want something overly expensive then you pay for it!

    Also my argument in court will be: Yes I got shot inside my home judge because my insurance said if I do install a cheap effective alarm system that my insurance will be voided. The media will have a hell of time with this one!

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    Gold Member garthu's Avatar
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    Most wireless (although they are permitted with a list of functions) are not compliant... sorry! But you right, i worry more about stopping intrusion now than anything. I told my insurance to get lost after a break in, laptop, camera and LCD stolen, there excuse it was visible in the house (IN THE CUPBOARD!!!). I now worry about stopping them before entry. I know the second someone is in my yard and exactly where they are all the time via the alarm system (no insurance would accept it although it would leave a R40 000 system in the cold). My family counts for more than insurance.
    Garth

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    Ok first of If this get into mainstream media then not a single insurance company will make money anymore. I will cancel my Insurance outright and put it in every single newspaper I can find. I think it is time I have a good look at my insurance and see what exactly the conditions are.

    So basically it comes down to this: Get an alarm that can save your life or get insurance that is basically useless? I go for the alarm and drop the insurance. Our lives are worth more.

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    One must also take into consideration what is reasonable. If you can prove that you did everything you could to keep your stuff safe then your Insurance will have a hell of time convincing them that you didn’t. It is based on these discussions that I do not do Insurance over the phone anymore. I want them in my home where I can discuss with them details about my home security and all that. Once that is stated they need to write me a quotation. Now If I accept the quotation and pay them what they ask we are in agreement. Now if something happens and they say but this and that! Then we can go back to the initial agreement where I stated what my security conditions were and so on...

    Case and Point: if you took the time to inform them of everything and they gave you insurance cover X amount shows that they have committed to pay you because they are accepting your money. SO! Bring it! If they do not pay out it is in violation of your agreement and thus legal steps can and must be taken!

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    Gold Member garthu's Avatar
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    Absolutely! If they agreed to accept, they have to. BUT do it in WRITING, advise them writing and request it written or something.. but in writing. Those clever little recorded telephone calls "FOR OUR PROTECTION", tend to vaporise at the wrong moment - like my hijacked Jetta that I KNOW i requested top up on, they refused to pay, no more voice recording. Further the voice recording is there property, if you want a copy, get a court order!!
    Garth

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    Site Caretaker Dave A's Avatar
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    My solution when it comes to insurance is to use a broker who comes to you. If there is a problem with the insurance cover, there is always the broker's professional indemnity cover

    That said, brokers are having to cover themselves with fine print too nowadays. But if you find a broker who is client oriented, they'll do a pretty good job of looking after your interests - particularly at claim time.
    The trouble with opportunity is it normally comes dressed up as work.

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    Right now I have to say that most telephonic agreements are taboo this is also true with your medical aid fund. I had the experience with medical aid Discovery. See I had an internal injury I didn’t knew about and when it became bad “suddenly and really unexpectedly” They said sorry you didn’t disclose this injury to us we will not pay for anything and furthermore I was stripped of my medical aid and I may never reapply at Discovery.

    Now even the specialist told me that you can walk for years with this condition and never know about it! “It is an internal break of some kind I don’t know the medical term” but anyway they said Discovery was really unreasonable but let’s face it, who has the money to take on Discovery medical aid fund? Also the lady that handled my claim was really intrusive unprofessional and she has no experience in health care at all but even with this in mind I was told by her that I was untruthful “that was after I told her what the specialist told me” and was left to take care of the bills myself.

    It is for this reason I actually drove to Johannesburg to hand in my medical examinations report personally! When I re applied for a medical aid. And it is for this reason that I do not do anything on the phone anymore. Because there is this gab that can and will be exploited and you are left on your own with mega bills to pay.

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    Gold Member Martinco's Avatar
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    I must say that by looking at the requirements for a system both of mine, one at my home and other at my business ( installed by the same company ) comply. I guess it varies from company to company. And yes Dave, in the long run it pays to use a broker. I have had some claims both at home and at the office and in all cases he resolved the issues in lightning quick time.
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    You may never know what results will come from your actions, but if you do nothing, there will be no results... Rudy Malan 05/03/2011

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