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Thread: Medieval Methodology.

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    Medieval Methodology.

    Trough out medieval history we will always find an example of a corrupt empire. The ruthless tax systems that made it impossible to hang to your land home and even your children. I fear that we have not evolved from this system. In modern economics we pay tax on our food, water, land and earnings.

    I stand to be corrected but we end up paying more or less 60c of every R1 to the government in the form of tax and services and the many hidden food and trade taxes that adds to the total sum. Then the banking system comes along and takes from your remaining wealth in the form of transaction fees and services thus you safe only a fraction of your true earnings.

    Now one cannot help but to ask why? Keep in mind that the government also receives money from all the natural rescores also one must remember import and export tax on particular items. Then there is a host of other tax systems that seems to take that little extra in the end of the day.

    Well I find the system self-defeating because it is taking so much money from the community that living cost dwarfs the total income of an individual. Now how thus our modern day tax system compare to the medieval methodology that was used?

    Well I am shocked to say that it is still very similar. You still face liquidation, prison and you can still lose your children to the government. So the basic methodology remained the same. Now how can we accredit modern government with forward thinking if the system they use is still as medieval as it was a few hundred years ago.

    This system is not only outdated in principle but barbaric in its raw nature. You still stand to lose everything.

    Yes the tax system does exist for good reason but one cannot help to think that the benefits of this system are nearly completely one-sided.

    Now one must understand that a few hundred years ago we had scarcity thus money was invented. Today we have scarcity by design to maximise profit. The fact is we have the capacity and the technological knowhow to eliminate scarcity thus the need for money itself can no longer be justified.

    So why are we still living under and outdated tax system?

    Can it be that the answer is as simple as this one word “Greed” is it even remotely possible?

    Well there will be a bunch of people that will say no... We cannot exist without money and they will copy and paste links to prove there statement.

    Yet I remain sceptical because we don’t need money what we need is forward thinking and I will stand by this statement.

    What do you think?

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    Silver Member Graeme's Avatar
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    If you vote for a government that will give you everything that you want, it will take everything that you have.

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    So do we just accept this then? Then I have lost the plot. It is that kind of attitude that just sucks the life right out of me. The willingness to accept that it is okay for us to just lose half of our money every month and then we just lose our homes, property and our basic ability to sustain a living. OK... fine clearly I failed again...

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    Gold Member Chrisjan B's Avatar
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    The Bible says: Give the king what the king is due... it may not be word correct but it conveys the meaning, albeit it does seem to be excessive.

    Heck we even pay the Microsoft tax...
    Life is a bitch and then you die..

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    Chrismine: Don’t get me started on that topic... I kind of like it here I don’t want to banned please...

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    Gold Member Chrisjan B's Avatar
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    There is also things that make me foam around my mouth and makes me speak colorful languages - ABSA Bank and JZ for instance.

    Dave will not ban us if we express our thoughts colorfully I hope - he can always mark the thread for adults only.

    Shall we ask him?

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    Please don’t misunderstand me I will easily say what I think about corporations, banks and government. But when religion comes into play I get upset because I am known for sounding like a very bad person if I have to go into this Religious topic.

    Yes ABSA bank... See ABSA is known for taking a lot of money when it comes to banking cost they are really eating away at your savings. Also they don’t correct their mistakes. I can point to a true story that happened a few years ago when ABSA just got its new name. A massif amount of money was stolen from an account and even proving that this person had a second bank-card and was withdrawing money late at night ABSA never repaid the man the R15000 that was stolen in total. Only when the man wanted to close his account did ABSA took action and locked out the cards. Up to date ABSA never repaid the man his money. I can say this because I have seen the banks statements. Whoever was steeling the money did so at 12:00 at night or 2:00 in the morning. But ABSA ja I don’t like them at all!

    We are of subject again

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    But I do want to go back to the barbaric tax system. I have spoken to a lot of people that really do get a good income. They told me that if they work overtime they actually get paid less! That is because TAX takes such a massif amount from them that it is not even worth working overtime anymore. Some of these people actually lose between R7000 and R18000 to tax thus their overtime end up being just a few thousand. It is a lot I will say that! But not for the amount of hours that they had to work. See I don’t feel that TAX on overtime can be justified. Case and Point: At a particular company you are known as a semi-permanent worker thus your pay without overtime is basically nothing. In order for you to make good money you need to work overtime thus TAX comes in and takes a lot thus crippling you again! Thanks to TAX you cannot afford a house, car because they take from you more then what you can afford. I can prove this with our high food prices, petrol prices and rent! Then if you take into consideration that you need a car to go to and from work every day it comes down to the fact that your pay cannot sustain you. But if TAX took a bit less then you might be able to survive. Yet again banking cost is also eating at your money so I don’t see you winning anytime soon.

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    Site Caretaker Dave A's Avatar
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    Graeme's comment is exceptionally insightful given it is a single sentence.

    Society really has to decide what it wants from government before we can complain about the cost. Personally I believe our government is too interfering and as a result costs too much, but I also recognise that might not be the opinion of the majority.
    Quote Originally Posted by chrismine View Post
    Dave will not ban us if we express our thoughts colorfully I hope
    Sometimes we need to express the true depth of our feelings.

    And banning is such a "last resort" thing. If I ever had to ban a regular member, I would feel that I had failed.
    The trouble with opportunity is it normally comes dressed up as work.

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    Gold Member twinscythe12332's Avatar
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    I'll start with a phrase, and elaborate from there. "nothing in life is free."

    we have always wanted goods and services, regardless of how primitive. When we see something we like, we immediately want it. If we stole it, we had the chance of being killed by the owner. Back then, the mentality was if you steal my stuff, I'm going to make sure you can never steal again. Originally, when a baker wanted a cow, he would barter for that cow. what happens if the cow owner doesn't want bread? the bread owner would have to find out what the cow owner wanted, and swap his bread for it. and if that person didn't want it? the cycle would continue until the bread owner could eventually get what he needed to barter through to get the cow, or he would have to forget it. Wouldn't it be easier to have a universally accepted form of barter? originally that was precious minerals, gold, silver, and metal in general. Now it is Pounds, Dollars, Rands, etc. MONEY.

    Now even back then, we were assigning leaders to represent our interests. kings, queens, the local spokesperson, whoever it was, the majority welcomed them as a leader. a Government is made up of a group of people who are meant to look for the best interests of a country (not always the case, as we all can see, but that's another story altogether). plenty of people will be unhappy, sure, but it is the MAJORITY who wins at the end of the day. the French Revolution is a perfect example of what happens when a minority (in this case government and high-class) doesn't listen to the majority. The order is unbalanced and so balance is restored.

    Now onto taxes. Police, public hospitals, schools, basic housing, grants, government salaries, etc all are paid using taxes. People earning a higher income get taxed more in essence because they have more to give. you cannot honestly expect someone earning 100 bucks a week to pay the same tax as you. they would go into debt, and yet are just trying to earn a living! the same goes for the opposite. if you're earning a high salary, and another person is earning a very low salary, how is it fair that you pay the same tax? a scale is introduced to pretty much even things out.

    as for cars, petrol and rent... do you really NEED that stuff? there are people out there who live on less than 800 rand a month. they have a roof over their head, food, water, and a few mates around them to chat to when they get bored. their NEEDS are met.
    Those higher up, earning good salaries want the nice car, want the super-fast computer, want the meat instead of the mielie-pap.


    Banks are a service, and we seem to forget that. we pay for the security of our funds( I know you're reading this, and are saying "but what about the ABSA story..." I'll get to it in a sec ), and the transfer costs are there for similar reasons. we also pay for a certain degree of ease of access. which is easier: paying for a car with a briefcase full of money that you had to count, hope like hell you weren't robbed during transit, and eventually handed over to someone.
    OR
    making a deopsit from your account into the other person's account, taking the payment slip, presenting it to the car owner and getting the keys (not always exactly the way it goes, but it's just an example)

    the alternative is keeping it under your matress... oh wait, that isn't very secure... what about a safe? oh... someone broke into it and stole ALL my money. when they break into a bank, it's from everyone's money

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