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Thread: South Africans resident overseas may not vote in 2009 elections

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    Site Caretaker Dave A's Avatar
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    South Africans resident overseas may not vote in 2009 elections

    I cannot help but marvel at this. South Africans resident overseas may not vote in next year's elections. However, our convicts can vote.

    Does anyone see the logic in this? (bonus reputation points on offer for the best explanation )
    The trouble with opportunity is it normally comes dressed up as work.

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    Platinum Member Marq's Avatar
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    No takers for bonus points..ok......here goes....

    The ANC have repeatedly told us that democracy = majority rule and stuff the rest and it would seem by default as we are continually told - South African = poor black people and rich politicians.

    With this limited logic (is that the right word??) the following can be deduced:-

    Convicts represent the majority of the anc and South African - therefore can vote.
    Anyone overseas could afford a ticket to get there - therefore rich and probably minority aligned Non South African - stuff you - therefore no vote.

    Or - if you are overseas - you must be in Exile (cause that is the done thing if you want to get into a position later on in life), therefore you do not agree with the current regime in power, therefore you are against us and as such are not South African - therefore no vote for you.

    Democracy is a political term used to define your free understanding of what the current regime is ordering you to believe in.

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    Moderator IanF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave A View Post
    Does anyone see the logic in this? (bonus reputation points on offer for the best explanation )
    Dave
    I am in for a bonus
    How about the costs saved of allowing overseas votes could be better spent on:
    Now not being cynical
    • Education
    • Moral regeneration
    • etc.
    Only stress when you can change the outcome!

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    Site Caretaker Dave A's Avatar
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    The big points go to Marq, but credit to Ian for finding an up side angle

    In the USA the situation is exactly the opposite - non-resident USA citizens can vote (and are actively encouraged to do so) and convicts don't get the vote.

    I feel this reflects the powers-that-be's mindset as to what exactly constitutes a South African citizen. It would be interesting to see this tested in the Constitutional Court.
    The trouble with opportunity is it normally comes dressed up as work.

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    Marq (16-Nov-08)

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    just me duncan drennan's Avatar
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    There is a Facebook group/cause which is trying to motivate people to join and donate money towards making this happen. They highlight these three paragraphs in the Constitution:

    19(3)(a) "Every Adult South African Citizen has the right to vote in elections for any legislative body established in terms of the Constitution, and to do so in secret."

    21(a) "Everyone has the right to freedom of movement"

    21(b) "Everyone has the right to leave the Republic"

    Surely a Constitutional challenge on this issue would be successful? I can see some logic in prisoners being able to vote, e.g. political prisoners, or prisoners who are unfairly detained, or treated poorly.
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    Platinum Member Marq's Avatar
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    Make voting for criminals by criminals a criminal offence

    The question regarding citizenship is probably the same around the world.

    As soon as you move away from your home turf - you become a persona non grata. We even find it within the country. Just because one moves to Cape Town doesn't make you a Capetonian and they have their subtle ways of letting you know this.

    My wife moved here to SA over 40 years ago - has not been back for over 35 years, even for a visit and has contributed to the communities where she has stayed here. defends the country against all, paid taxes and has plenty to offer. She has no vote and very little rights here - compare this to a 25 year old youngster in Jail who has never had a job. pillaged, raped and murdered his way through his miserable life thus far. Apparently he has more rights.

    I moved to Bloemfontein for a two year period in another life time and even supported the Cheetahs while I was there. Perhaps that's a mechanism for determining where and whether you can vote or not. You have to be a paid up registered member of a recognised rugby/soccer/cricket club. That should sort out where and whether you can vote. After all no one is actually interested in politics itself, just the power trip, retribution and financial gain that you can score out of it.

    Supposedly the 'Independent' Electoral Commission, (currently run by 'the Guvment' - seen by the anc party as one and the same) determines these factors regarding who when and where and how - Independent
    The current commissioner of the IEC used to be the commissioner of the..... tra la......Human Rights commission. Another dubious Commission where strange decisions are made regarding rights of anybody. No wonder, the criminals have a right to vote.

    Should we ever get to to the year 2030 - they will look back and say - the late 1900 and early 2000's - oh yes that's the 'human rights' era, when everybody had rights to do whatever they wanted to do to whomever depending on who or what you were and they almost destroyed the human race declaring and enforcing those 'rights'. Thank goodness we now live in the world of 'human whats lefts'.

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    Site Caretaker Dave A's Avatar
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    19(3)(a) "Every Adult South African Citizen has the right to vote in elections for any legislative body established in terms of the Constitution, and to do so in secret."
    Bloody ridiculous that anyone has to run to the Constitutional Court to get gov to correctly apply something that clear-cut and unambiguous.
    Quote Originally Posted by duncan drennan View Post
    I can see some logic in prisoners being able to vote, e.g. political prisoners, or prisoners who are unfairly detained, or treated poorly.
    That's what pardons are for. The American theory is that if you have been convicted of a criminal offence, you have abused the rights of others and therefor your right to vote is part of the forfeit.

    One of our problems in applying this in SA is that a lot of what would be considered a misdemeanor in the USA is criminalised here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marq View Post
    After all no one is actually interested in politics itself, just the power trip, retribution and financial gain that you can score out of it.
    So painfully true of the "ruling party" at the moment.
    The trouble with opportunity is it normally comes dressed up as work.

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    Hi there ,my opinion is as follows,[1]to punish the so called non patriots for leaving the country??.[2]those that left most properly would vote against the current party,can they really afford this to happen i think not .[3] whereas the convicts maybe more open to be led around with empty promises vote for us we will look after you only a opinion!!!!!

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    Site Caretaker Dave A's Avatar
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    Well, the issue is now going to court.
    South African opposition parties want the country's courts to change the electoral Act in a bid to give millions of expatriates the right to vote in upcoming elections.

    The Democratic Alliance (DA) and Freedom Front Plus are challenging the Act that states only people on business trips, studying abroad or taking part in international sports events can have a special vote.

    "The right to vote is a fundamental right. The denial of the right to vote to the vast majority of South Africans was central to the struggle against apartheid -- a struggle in which thousands of South Africans lost their lives," said DA executive chairperson James Selfe said Monday.

    The party's application is on behalf of Roy Tipper, a South African teaching English in South Korea on contract who plans to return to the country.

    The Homecoming Revolution, which encourages expat South Africans to return home to address the country's skills shortage, estimated that about two million expatriates would be eligible to vote if the Act was amended.
    full story from M&G here
    The trouble with opportunity is it normally comes dressed up as work.

  11. #10
    just me duncan drennan's Avatar
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    On a side note I heard a brief interview with an international mover mentioning that there are a number of people moving back to SA from overseas. The international job market is not quite what it used to be.
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