A peek inside the SA Reserve Bank

[Dave A]

I didn't know the SA Reserve Bank had public shareholders! This is quite a revealing story on aspects of what is going on at the SARB.

The attitude of one of the shareholders at the South African Reserve Bank's 88th ordinary annual general meeting (AGM) was racist, Reserve Bank Governor Tito Mboweni said on Thursday.

"I shall not permit you to talk to me like whites used to talk to blacks," Mboweni told shareholder Mario Pretorius.

Pretorius twice told Mboweni he wanted to bring a point of order to the meeting, and when he was not acknowledged he said: "Shocking," which prompted the governor's response.

Mr. Pretorius is right. The chairman of a meeting ignoring a call on a point of order is... out of order!

Another shareholder, Michael Duerr, told Mboweni he wanted to bring to shareholders' attention the failure to circulate to shareholders important items of special business proposed and on the agenda.

"The omission is deliberate," Duerr said.

Mboweni found Duerr out of order.

After the meeting, Duerr -- who holds 5% of the Reserve Bank's shares --issued a press statement claiming that, since 1920, the influence of shareholders at the bank had been gradually and drastically inhibited.

Duerr said the meeting should have been abandoned to give shareholders proper notice of the special business to be discussed as part of the AGM. That business included a discussion of flagrant contraventions by SARB employees.

It appeared these had not been investigated and that no action had been taken "despite these matters having been brought to the attention of the board".

Duerr -- who is a German national -- said he would call an extraordinary general meeting as he was not allowed to speak at Thursday's meeting.

A shareholder must hold 10% of voting shares to call an extraordinary meeting, according to Johann de Jager, legal counsel for the Reserve Bank, who addressed the media at a briefing following the AGM.

He said Duerr wasn't permitted to vote at the AGM because the Reserve Bank held the view that he was not a permanent resident of the country.
full story from M&G here

Straight out of the book on How to lose financiers and piss of people, by the looks of things.

Apart from raising some really questionable behaviour issues, this story has got me asking - what is the role of the shareholder in the SARB?

[murdock]

i feel this country is becoming more of a raciest country than even in the appartheid days...from both sides...i have been disriminated against more than ever and as for the adverts on TV always portraying white middle aged males as dumb nerds...i just wish i could find some of these bright educated cool black dudes i have pletty work opitunities for one of them...especially if they have a "recognised trade" and just a little savy

i know there is handful of them out there... but they have all been snapped up for TV ads

[Dave A]

Yeah yeah. Same o. Maybe we should start a racism thread.

But let's hone in on the Reserve Bank itself here. The thing that fascinates me - I would have expected government to be the sole shareholder for something like the Reserve Bank. I wonder if a list of major shareholders and their interest is publicly available?

[Dave A]

Just goes to show - you get what you look for. I've come across this report which sheds some light on the topic.

Why own a stake in a policy body?
September 19, 2008

By Ethel Hazelhurst

The Reserve Bank is one of only nine privately owned central banks. Shareholders are limited to 10 000 shares each and are allowed one vote for each 200 shares they hold.

Shareholders include banks and other large corporations, as well as individuals.

The bank, which was founded in 1921 and listed on the JSE in 1922, delisted in 2002. Shares are traded privately.

After payments to reserves and dividends of 10 percent of paid-up capital, surplus earnings are paid to the government.

As dividends are negligible, the incentive for owning shares is that they give shareholders access to documents and data not readily available to the public. Holding shares is also perceived as conferring prestige on the holder.
full story from Business Report here

All the more reason to treat shareholders with a little respect, I'd think.

Thanks Ethel.

[Yvonne]

I am positive that there are many South African today, as we were! that are stunned at the news that the Reserve Bank has private shareholders!

Yvonne

[Sieg]

Michael Duerr & the SA Reserve bank

Noseweek carried an article on Herr Duerr's duel with his eminence, Governor Tito Mboweni, in its March 2008 edition.

http://www.noseweek.co.za/article.php?current_article=1657

Sieg

[Dave A]

I see Mario Pretorius isn't taking the racist remark lying down.

A letter asking Reserve Bank Governor Tito Mboweni to apologise for accusing a shareholder of speaking in a racist manner at the bank's general meeting has been sent to his personal lawyers to deal with, his spokesperson said on Tuesday.

The letter -- from a shareholder's lawyer -- was sent to the bank on Friday following a comment made by Mboweni to shareholder Mario Pretorius at the annual meeting on September 19.

According to the letter, Pretorius asked Mboweni at the AGM to bring the meeting to order. Mboweni apparently refused, and Pretorius responded by saying "shocking".

“I shall not permit you to talk to me like whites used to talk to blacks", Mboweni was reported to have said.

Pretorius, through his lawyer, Johan van Huyssteens, requested a public apology for the accusation that he spoke to the governor in a racist manner.

The letter states that Mboweni should withdraw his statement and apologise unconditionally by way of a letter and a statement in the media.

Should Mboweni not act by October 3, Van Huyssteens said Pretorius would institute a claim against him and the South African Reserve Bank for R1-million.

"Should your unsolicited branding of our client as a racist negatively influence his business, he obviously reserves the right to claim further damages from you [Mboweni] and SARB," the letter stated.
full story from M&G here

Anyone else think Mario stands a better chance getting a cheque than getting a public apology?

[Dave A]

As predicted...

South African Reserve Bank Governor Tito Mboweni did not apologise on Friday for an allegedly racist jibe he is accused of making to a shareholder at the bank's September 18 annual general meeting.

Instead, he denied the allegations in a letter written by his lawyers to shareholder Mario Pretorius.
full story from M&G here

[duncan drennan]

With tapes of this on the news every night, what does everyone think? Did Mboweni act in a racist manner?

To me, he might not have handled the matter in the best way possible, but it feels like Pretorius is making a mountain out of a molehill. Suck it up and get on with life, nobody would have even known what happened in that meeting if it wasn't for this complaint. What do you guys think?

[Morticia]

Sorry, but what's good for the goose is good for the gander! It's just my perception but under the current government the racist card is plucked out at every conceivable opportunity. When the opposition makes an issue over a wrongful accusation it's either "I was quoted out of context" or "I categorically deny ever saying that".

It's high time they stop hiding behind a racist excuse and take justified critisism on the chin like a man!!

[Dave A]

Did Mboweni act in a racist manner?

Let's see...

"I shall not permit you to talk to me like whites used to talk to blacks," Mboweni told shareholder Mario Pretorius.

Shades of Verwoed? Yep - he's a racist.

[Graeme]

Mboweni said he would not reply because Duerr is not a permanent resident.
Since when did a shareholder have to be a permanent resident?

[Frankincense]

SARB privately owned since inception and why...

Here's a bit extra ....."Once again, although dividends are limited to 10c/share, for the 2 million issued shares, and share ownership is limited to 10 000, it is clearly stated that those who owned more than 10 000 before the limitation, could keep their shares. If you undertand these concepts, you would understand that since we no longer follow the gold standard, the only thing that gives our money value is "confidence" in it. Also the governments ability to levy income tax on us plays a significant role in determining the strength of our currency, explained in a very simplified way. Also, look at the statements on the reserve bank. They hold most of the country's local debt. Back to the American Federal Reserve Bank. The ownership of that central bank is by 12 other local banks in New York.(SARB owned by 9 Central Banks)They have a direct stake in the Federal Reserve. The most brilliant thing they ever did was to get rid of the gold standard...This enabled them to print as much money as they needed, and since it was not backed by physical gold, this money was more or less created out of thin air, and then loaned to the US government! The US government used income tax of its citizens as collateral for these loans!!! (once again simplified explanation). Think about this, before 1913, the US never payed income tax, as this was a direct tax on a persons labour and was not apportioned (16th amendment). But once the Fed was established americans were forced to pay income tax, all to fund interest payment on the debt! Ronald Reagan commissioned a study that indicated that ALL the income tax was used to pay for the INTEREST on the debt! When I look at our situation, our Reserve Bank is privately owned, and when you talk of a low dividend, I ask you, what is the point of privatisation if you are only getting a 10 % return? Also, our government is indebted to the Reserve Bank! , on the economic cycles, these guys manipulate the supply and demand of money, and in that way they are able to get REAL ASSETTS for their paper money. Using the money multiplier, they loan out money they dont technically have, and when the rates rise, they reposess a tangible asset, like a business/house/property etc. In this way they now own the tangible assets, all for the price of a few numbers on a screen.

The first problem is that the world governments (SARB) are lying to us about the true statistics - why the economy is worse than we are lead to believe.

If one crunched the numbers as was done a few decades ago, then US inflation would be as high as 12% and not the alleged present 4.5%. Unemployment would be 9 to 12% and not the 5.5% claimed presently. Growth would be 1% and not 3.5%. If these correct figures were used then US interest rates would triple. It's believed that when this cover up is blown and the public realise they have been lied to, the markets will collapse big time.

The same is happening in SA. The official inflation is 11% yet plastics, paper and steel have all gone up more than 20% since last year. Food and fuel are also rocketing ever higher. I don't buy in to a figure of inflation @ 11%. 20% maybe - in which case interest rates should definitely be 25%.

It's interesting that the present stage of the housing cycle is very similar to early 1985. The graphs are very similar but the main difference is that back then interest rates were already up at 23% by this stage. I suspect that if the government wasn't lying to us, we would also be above 20% by now.


I really need that list of shareholders and percentage interests..gotta tie it up..

[Dave A]

The most brilliant thing they ever did was to get rid of the gold standard...This enabled them to print as much money as they needed, and since it was not backed by physical gold, this money was more or less created out of thin air,

True, but that money supply has to be carefully managed though. If they oversupply, we'll see runaway inflation - Zimbabwe is a classic example.

I ask you, what is the point of privatisation if you are only getting a 10 % return?

A 10c dividend on an R11 share is less than 1%, but we share the same question. The answer, apparently, is prestige and information.

[Frankincense]

Calling SARB to Order

I called SARB today and was told by "Agent X" that SARB is not authorising the issuing of the SARB Shareholders Register

My supposition was: "I would like to buy shares, but would like to know who all my partners are, as that is at least an aspirant shareholder's right?"

They took my number and said someone would call me back. I have not recieved the call to date

I believe I know why they wont make it public knowledge as the leaders do not want to be implicated at this stage publically.

"If they oversupply, we'll see runaway inflation - Zimbabwe is a classic example" - Agreed 100% , thing is currencies are now being devalued internationally [purposefully calculated collapses, but not publically revealed]to drive the unification strategy now apparent to those researching the "buying and selling without the mark"

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aP5mpMUORBWM

They will only be as carfull with money supply as the results they desire, and those are scary

http://www.henrymakow.com/illuminati_bankers_seek_revolu.html

"A 10c dividend on an R11 share is less than 1%, but we share the same question."

I have an answer : The share price was around R3800 per share, then devalued, delisted and opened to private trading. That means the power of control still lays with those behind the curtain we "may not peek into" unless they call me and reveal all, but they are slightly intellligent creatures....

Oh well...all that is hidden shall be revealed...tick tock...time is moving...