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Thread: Dismissal due to theft. unsure on how to proceed

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    Dismissal due to theft. unsure on how to proceed

    hi everyone

    i have a problem and would like some assistance please.

    i am a manager of a small company that does consulting work. the owner of the company has put me incharge of an entire branch of the company. 9 months ago i employed an intern from a college to assist me.

    he has been an excellent worker until a recent incident that has left our entire office shocked.

    this occurred in december and i unaware of the actions was alerted by the bank of possible fraud on my account. i stopped all cards, moved funds out of my account and instructed the bank to start an investigation.

    i recently contacted the bank to do a follow up and was told the fraud case is closed as the airtime purchases were to known people. i was given the numbers telephonically of who it was purchased for. i was told that using some method he has linked my bank account to his cellphone and can recharge airtime without needing my card details.

    calling those numbers i found it was this employee and his brother (whom i have never met)

    upon confronting him he was defensive and stated he would not know my pin number , etc

    i immediately told him to leave the office and think about what i have just told him and that i will contact him with a way forward.

    i have since contacted the bank and requested for a letter of all information that was given to me over the phone and also highlighted all transactions from my bank statement (total of R1600) the bank has not yet provided this letter but they have a 48 hour turn around time.


    how do i proceed ??

    do i prepare a letter for him for his current suspension
    what requirements are necessary for the disciplinary hearing
    how do i proceed with police charges
    what is required for his termination

    my boss has told me that he will support any decision i take and perhaps if he accepts to hand in his own resignation i will not have any issues down the line. i was also told that i would be compensated out of his salary (off which is not really important)

    do i prepare a resignation letter for him and present that as an offer? if he resigns will i still need to go to the police to open up a case.

    i really do appreciate any feedback i can receive on this matter, my apologies if i seem to be rambling.

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    Bronze Member Brett Nortje's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaun Nadan View Post
    hi everyone

    i have a problem and would like some assistance please.

    i am a manager of a small company that does consulting work. the owner of the company has put me incharge of an entire branch of the company. 9 months ago i employed an intern from a college to assist me.

    he has been an excellent worker until a recent incident that has left our entire office shocked.

    this occurred in december and i unaware of the actions was alerted by the bank of possible fraud on my account. i stopped all cards, moved funds out of my account and instructed the bank to start an investigation.

    i recently contacted the bank to do a follow up and was told the fraud case is closed as the airtime purchases were to known people. i was given the numbers telephonically of who it was purchased for. i was told that using some method he has linked my bank account to his cellphone and can recharge airtime without needing my card details.

    calling those numbers i found it was this employee and his brother (whom i have never met)

    upon confronting him he was defensive and stated he would not know my pin number , etc

    i immediately told him to leave the office and think about what i have just told him and that i will contact him with a way forward.

    i have since contacted the bank and requested for a letter of all information that was given to me over the phone and also highlighted all transactions from my bank statement (total of R1600) the bank has not yet provided this letter but they have a 48 hour turn around time.


    how do i proceed ??

    do i prepare a letter for him for his current suspension
    what requirements are necessary for the disciplinary hearing
    how do i proceed with police charges
    what is required for his termination

    my boss has told me that he will support any decision i take and perhaps if he accepts to hand in his own resignation i will not have any issues down the line. i was also told that i would be compensated out of his salary (off which is not really important)

    do i prepare a resignation letter for him and present that as an offer? if he resigns will i still need to go to the police to open up a case.

    i really do appreciate any feedback i can receive on this matter, my apologies if i seem to be rambling.
    First of all, to fire him you would need to prove this has something to do with the company. did he do it on company time, or did he do it with company information, bringing the company into disrepute? or, will he plead he is a compulsive gambler, therefore having a mental fixation with needing money, or what? maybe he was calling his child that lives somewhere else, but i doubt it, or, maybe he was taking liberty of making customers for the company? i doubt that too.

    Have you heard of hackers? have you heard of real fraud? if it is serious, you might get him, but theft of 1600.00 rand is a small claims court thing. if it is fraud, it is like getting someone to pull their weapon on you in the dark, yes? really not a serious crime, maybe he could pay you back? of course, if it shows some hidden agenda or latent skills in industrial espionage, then this could affect the company ,getting him fired. if he does get fired, it is like a nine month non reference, but, if he worked with customers, and cut them in on the deal, then they might give him this reference he seeks, yes?

    So, the best you can do is to go to a police person and ask them about these things. of course, your company will benefit from some publicity, so why not say that he stole a lot of money, and he knows assad or something? or you could pull a malema and tell him to pay back the money outside his house in his street?

    I would suppose getting your company card would have been a problem, so he is either very careful or not too bright.
    !! Going to my destruction !!

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    The 1st steps need no thinking. On receipt of that confirmation from the bank you go to the police. they should charge him for theft/fraud.

    There is no way that this guy should be in the employ of the company. It is straightforward. Hearing & dismissal. The trust between him & the company,you & rest of the staff has been severed

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    Bronze Member Brett Nortje's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flaker View Post
    The 1st steps need no thinking. On receipt of that confirmation from the bank you go to the police. they should charge him for theft/fraud.

    There is no way that this guy should be in the employ of the company. It is straightforward. Hearing & dismissal. The trust between him & the company,you & rest of the staff has been severed
    Keeping a trespasser might be a good idea, as, they have played with fire and gotten burned, which is less likely to happen again, or, more likely to happen to someone else.
    !! Going to my destruction !!

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    i agree with you, but looking at the previous post i think one of my biggest concerns is that it was not the company card but my personal account. it was in dec when we shut down for for the christmas break.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brett Nortje View Post
    Keeping a trespasser might be a good idea, as, they have played with fire and gotten burned, which is less likely to happen again, or, more likely to happen to someone else.
    none of the supervisors are willing to work with him again after this incident. they all have voiced that they refuse to have him on their units as the level of trust has been broken

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brett Nortje View Post
    First of all, to fire him you would need to prove this has something to do with the company. did he do it on company time, or did he do it with company information, bringing the company into disrepute? or, will he plead he is a compulsive gambler, therefore having a mental fixation with needing money, or what? maybe he was calling his child that lives somewhere else, but i doubt it, or, maybe he was taking liberty of making customers for the company? i doubt that too.

    Have you heard of hackers? have you heard of real fraud? if it is serious, you might get him, but theft of 1600.00 rand is a small claims court thing. if it is fraud, it is like getting someone to pull their weapon on you in the dark, yes? really not a serious crime, maybe he could pay you back? of course, if it shows some hidden agenda or latent skills in industrial espionage, then this could affect the company ,getting him fired. if he does get fired, it is like a nine month non reference, but, if he worked with customers, and cut them in on the deal, then they might give him this reference he seeks, yes?

    So, the best you can do is to go to a police person and ask them about these things. of course, your company will benefit from some publicity, so why not say that he stole a lot of money, and he knows assad or something? or you could pull a malema and tell him to pay back the money outside his house in his street?

    I would suppose getting your company card would have been a problem, so he is either very careful or not too bright.
    was it the company card : no
    was it on company time : no
    did he do it with company info : perhaps but difficult to prove
    plead for personal needs : he is not a gambler, not a drug user, he has no children and is 20 years old
    plead for company gain : no - his project involves 1 municipal client that he doesnt interact with directly

    i dont class it as a major fraud case , paying back the money is not necessary but it has created serious trust problems with the other staff members. all personal privileges that i was providing have been revoked

    2 of my supervisors are SAPS reservists and they have told me that since it was an act of theft against a fellow employee that there is grounds for dismissal but im taking their statements with a serious pinch of salt.

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    Platinum Member sterne.law@gmail.com's Avatar
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    The fact that it was a company card I snot a fatal flaw.
    An employee can be disciplined for conduct outside of work hours and premises - provided there is some link back.
    Example - two colleagues have a fight, outside of work hours - discipline can still be instilled.

    The action on your card, still links back, so that is no deterrent.
    Your statement from the Bank is hearsay, so there is a small evidentiary hurdle.
    Be that a sit may, the short term of service is too your advantage.
    Employee should be suspended and a hearing held.
    Anthony Sterne

    www.acumenholdings.co.za
    DISCLAIMER The above is merely a comment in discussion form and an open public arena. It does not constitute a legal opinion or professional advice in any manner or form.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sterne.law@gmail.com View Post
    The fact that it was a company card I snot a fatal flaw.
    An employee can be disciplined for conduct outside of work hours and premises - provided there is some link back.
    Example - two colleagues have a fight, outside of work hours - discipline can still be instilled.

    The action on your card, still links back, so that is no deterrent.
    Your statement from the Bank is hearsay, so there is a small evidentiary hurdle.
    Be that a sit may, the short term of service is too your advantage.
    Employee should be suspended and a hearing held.

    the statement from the bank lists the total of all transactions, there will be a letter from the bank with the fraud call that was logged and the numbers that were used (the numbers that match to this employee and his brother)

    currently he is suspended but i did not issue him with a letter before he left the office. when i call him in for the hearing will i need to give him a letter to acknowledge his suspension?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sterne.law@gmail.com View Post
    The fact that it was a company card I snot a fatal flaw.
    An employee can be disciplined for conduct outside of work hours and premises - provided there is some link back.
    Example - two colleagues have a fight, outside of work hours - discipline can still be instilled.

    The action on your card, still links back, so that is no deterrent.
    Your statement from the Bank is hearsay, so there is a small evidentiary hurdle.
    Be that a sit may, the short term of service is too your advantage.
    Employee should be suspended and a hearing held.
    i will have the letter from the bank which outlines what happened and the numbers that the airtime was purchased for (his and his brother) the statement was just to total up all of the transactions

    i did not issue him with a suspension letter when i asked him to leave, should i prepare one for him when he returns for the hearing to acknowledge his suspension?

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