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Thread: Statues or not?

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    Diamond Member Blurock's Avatar
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    Statues or not?

    Can we wipe out the past? I think not. Lets rather learn from our mistakes and not repeat them. Colonialism was bad, but it has also brought prosperity to the countries where it happened. Yes, there was collateral damage. Yes, people were exploited. Yes, the rulers thought that they were superior and abused other races. This happened in India, in South America, in the USA, in Canada, in Africa and almost all over the world. Just about all of those countries have gained their independence and has moved on. Most still belong to the Commonwealth and other colonialist structures, but they use those structures to good effect. Why do we South Africans want to ignore our history and not learn from it so that we can move on?

    RHODES SCHOLARSHIPS AND THE CONSEQUENCES AFTER IT HAS BEEN DECIDED TO MOVE THE STATUE - HOW SHORT SIGHTED COULD YOU BE

    Now that the Rhodes statue controversy is almost done and dusted, with Max Price stating that the statue must be moved, the next target by the anti-imperialist students of UCT must surely be the Rhodes Scholarship.

    This Scholarship allows for 2-3 years study at Oxford University with a stipend of 13,650 pounds per year for postgraduate students. They also stay in a residential college. Students have access to Rhodes House, a 20th century mansion with public rooms, gardens, a library and study areas etc. All this provided by the Rhodes Trust.

    Iím sure, however, that the UCT students, in their fanatical endeavours to remove everything connected to Rhodes , will fight tooth and nail to have the Scholarship banned, and that any student selected will vociferously decline in lieu of his conscience and warped ideology.

    It is strange though that Nelson Mandela saw fit to merge the Mandela Foundation with the Rhodes Foundation to form the Mandela Rhodes Foundation in 2003, that got a whopping R142 million from the Rhodes Trust. Itís also quite ironical that the mission school Mandela attended received a grant from the Rhodes Trust, as did the University of Fort Hare where he studied. At his treason trial Mandela was defended by a Rhodes Scholar, Bram Fischer. There is no doubt that these bigoted students will fight vociferously to have the Rhodes Trust removed from the Mandela Rhodes Foundation as the Mandela name cannot be tarnished by linking it to the imperialist racist, Cecil Rhodes.

    A colonial racist who has done nothing for the black people of South Africa except donate millions of Rands to worthy causes, and fund and build schools and universities that they are attending quite sanctimoniously. Statues and trusts can be removed, but never history. Talk about looking a gift horse in the mouth.

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    Diamond Member wynn's Avatar
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    My 2cents is that the students and anybody else interested should have financed some bronze friezes to attach to the base of the statue to depict the misery wrought by CJR to bring attention to and correct the injustices he committed in the past instead of removing the statue.
    History is history and we should learn from it.
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    Diamond Member HR Solutions's Avatar
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    mmmm tough one this. Yes history is valuable to a certain point. If you think about it in real simple ways. Rhodes came along and colonised the Cape, and other places where he could get his hands on and then "gave" the land to "UCT" for example. He was not really a nice guy along the way, so in a basic way I do understand and surely we can perhaps move on from that era and find someone else to make a statue of and erect it in its place.
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    Diamond Member Blurock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HR Solutions View Post
    mmmm tough one this. Yes history is valuable to a certain point. If you think about it in real simple ways. Rhodes came along and colonised the Cape, and other places where he could get his hands on and then "gave" the land to "UCT" for example. He was not really a nice guy along the way, so in a basic way I do understand and surely we can perhaps move on from that era and find someone else to make a statue of and erect it in its place.
    As an Afrikaner whose people endured hardship under British rule, whose women and children were interned and died in British concentration camps, should I not be the one to break down the Rhodes statue? (and also those of any other British colonist or Royal) But would that change history? No, not one bit. It would only fuel more hatred and division. The past is the past and we cannot change history. As much as I despise Rhodes for his brutal greed and the harm that he has done, I am against the breaking down of statues or any other "emblems" or cultural items.

    A country is formed by the cultures of its people and by the way we are influenced by other cultures. In South Africa we have borrowed several words from our different languages. We sing each other's cultural and folk songs. We eat traditional dishes from other cultures. We share. That is Lekker. That makes us Mzanzi. This bunch of hooligans who even defaced the horse memorial in PE has no pride, no culture, no morals. They are politically bankrupt and are trying to gain support by being radical. What does a horse have to do with apartheid or colonialism? Their stupidity is so great, it is not worth reasoning with them. They are like a pack of dogs on a piece of dead meat.

    It is time to put our country first. What has happened to uBuntu and to patriotism? Rather get rid of corrupt politicians and officials. Forget about the side shows and sowing of hatred. Lets rather work together to make this great country of ours even greater. We will only achieve greatness by building things, not by breaking it down.
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    Silver Member bones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blurock View Post
    As an Afrikaner whose people endured hardship under British rule, whose women and children were interned and died in British concentration camps, should I not be the one to break down the Rhodes statue? (and also those of any other British colonist or Royal) But would that change history? No, not one bit. It would only fuel more hatred and division. The past is the past and we cannot change history. As much as I despise Rhodes for his brutal greed and the harm that he has done, I am against the breaking down of statues or any other "emblems" or cultural items.

    A country is formed by the cultures of its people and by the way we are influenced by other cultures. In South Africa we have borrowed several words from our different languages. We sing each other's cultural and folk songs. We eat traditional dishes from other cultures. We share. That is Lekker. That makes us Mzanzi. This bunch of hooligans who even defaced the horse memorial in PE has no pride, no culture, no morals. They are politically bankrupt and are trying to gain support by being radical. What does a horse have to do with apartheid or colonialism? Their stupidity is so great, it is not worth reasoning with them. They are like a pack of dogs on a piece of dead meat.

    It is time to put our country first. What has happened to uBuntu and to patriotism? Rather get rid of corrupt politicians and officials. Forget about the side shows and sowing of hatred. Lets rather work together to make this great country of ours even greater. We will only achieve greatness by building things, not by breaking it down.
    the question is, who has the right to there history?

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    Everybody has a right to their history. That is a difficult point and means that there are at least two different sides to each story.
    These statues are part of history and removing them will not change anything (besides giving a sense of accomplishment to whoever wanted them gone and creating anger).

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    Diamond Member HR Solutions's Avatar
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    Yes I agree with Bones - who has a right ?
    I am not saying you are wrong Blurock - Im just saying is a very difficult one. From the Afrikaner point of view things are different, from the zulu point of view things are different etc etc . We do have to live in harmony, but the problem is we are moving forward with new generations coming thro who sees things differently. It happens all over the world - you get different groups that all feel differently. The problem is different groups will NEVER agree and you really do have to go with the flow for harmony. You cannot dig your heels in and say tough things are not going to change.

    A typical example is here in our workplace. I am from the old school with young girls working for us who look at things totally different, but they get the job done. The Y generation is actually a wonderful generation - they see things in a totally different light and when discussing certain issues with them you can actually see that a lot of our older ideas are actually old and really don't work anymore. Obviously the basics of running a business remains.
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    Diamond Member Blurock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bones View Post
    the question is, who has the right to there history?
    I suggest that we all agree that Hitler may be one of the most hated men on earth. Do we now create a law that all biographies and books be burnt or the name Hitler may not be mentioned at all? Those who have a basic grasp of history will understand that Hitler is a symbol of evil. We keep reminding ourselves of how it should not be done.

    We now have a group of anarchists who are urged on by irresponsible politicians to destroy everything that they do not agree with. That is cheap and basically wrong. If I do not like you or your politics, it does not give me the right to kill you or to burn down your house.

    I am all for change and see myself as a change agent embracing the ideals of youth. Maybe its because I never aged beyond 18. Only the body gets older. People should learn to be more tolerant and see how they can make this world a better place. Not burn the place down to score political points.

    Viva the people - down with politicians!
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    What history is supposed to teach us is that it should not happen again. By removing these statues, one forgets about how it happened, and the methodology of the path to make it happen.

    If I look at how Hitler got into power, then I see resemblances on a regular basis,and am able to defend myself from allowing it to happen. Removing the history from the public domain, simply allows the same thing to happen due to ignorance.

    The way EFF is going about their business is very similar to the early days of the Nazi party. Create an aspiration in the population, that the world owes you everything because you were done in the past, and create a common enemy in which the population can unleash their frustration due to hard times. When you get a bit of power, then cause a situation to oust the present government by creating chaos, and get yourself elected into a governing position, then change the constitution because you can to your own version.
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    Diamond Member HR Solutions's Avatar
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    If I look at how Hitler got into power, then I see resemblances on a regular basis,and am able to defend myself from allowing it to happen. Removing the history from the public domain, simply allows the same thing to happen due to ignorance.
    Except in Germany there is not one statue of Hitler.
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