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Thread: Major theft yet bank and cell phone company do nothing!

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    Major theft yet bank and cell phone company do nothing!

    It’s now well over two months since R150,000 was stolen from our Nedbank account, which the bank claims was due to a phishing & sim swap procedure. I like to think I’m reasonably savvy when it comes to suspicious e-mails & online banking and the Internet in general, so most certainly did not provide my banking details to any website.

    So far I’ve drawn a blank in terms of establishing any finite details from Nedbank or Vodacom.

    Nedbank sent a letter saying they could do nothing to recover funds, claiming they were withdrawn before they could be blocked, but haven't said and refusing to advise to which account the money was sent. In short, the tenor of their letter, after banking with them for almost 40 years is one of, "an unfortunate situation, next customer please or F.U.”

    The loss was established when I was unable to log in on a Tuesday morning, apparently the theft was on Saturday. When queried as to why we had not been informed, the reply was “yes another person said that yesterday”.

    Our business manager was challenged as to why we were only advised three days after the event, the reply was “unfortunately the theft was committed on Saturda”. He further advised that we might wish to consider an additional level of security at R135 pm and to install the Trusteer report program!! (We have had Trusteer since inception, but understand it also can be compromised).

    When asked how our set maximum payment limit was exceeded enabling an increase to equal our inter account limit. “That can be done on line” was the reply. How daft is that without background checks. Why it is so easy to increase the limit, I fail to understand. I am still awaiting a response.

    Many weeks have passed since requesting the account number details and exact timing, etc. of all events and I have received nothing from Nedbank.

    We are also awaiting a response from the Nedbank's Ombudsman whom I contacted about a week after the event, despite a promise of a reference number within 48 hours.

    Likewise with Vodacom, we were informed the sim swap was done fraudulently in Midrand but that is the only information Vodacom has so far provided, other than saying that it’s the result of fraud that has been perpetrated on me by a very well organised syndicate and they are currently working and liaising with the Police (Hawks) and the banking institutions for further investigation to identify these fraudsters. The investigations are on-going.
    I was under the impression that the service provider has to take a copy of ID and other details before issuing a new sim. How then did this happen? Why is there no accountability from Vodacom?

    It just doesn’t seem right that one is been treated with such disregard and two large corporations are continuing with a ‘business as usual’ attitude.

    Having discussed this in various quarters, I'm led to believe Nedbank's security is not so secure as other banks and almost all of individuals I have spoken to who are familiar with banking or phone-related theft have said it usually starts inside the bank and associates in the cell phone company.

    I would appreciate any comments.

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    Diamond Member adrianh's Avatar
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    Please speak with Noseweek. They just 'love' the various banks.

    Www.noseweek.co.za
    How easily someone is offended is directly proportional to how stupid they are.
    ~GS Elevator

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    I tried to do a sim swop at the V&A on Saturday, they refused to do it unless a produced an original ID document. Been having problems with my cut to fit sim card, thought it would be a simple exchange at MTN.

    A friend of mine has had R 50 000 removed from his Standard bank account and nobody can give him a direct answer. "It is under investigation" 5 months later and still under investigation.

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    Diamond Member Justloadit's Avatar
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    Just remember, honest folks have the hassles of trying to get a SIM swap, how ever the thieves who are inside the system, simply over ride the system.

    What bothers me, is that who ever logs into the system to do the SIM swap needs a user name and password. This is now part of the history on any changes done on the specific SIM, so why is so damn difficult to pick up the perpetrator, and charge him with fraud and theft?
    Same as the bank, they know which account the money moved to, and even if the money is pulled out in cash, they know from the user name and password, who created the account and who accepted the credentials when the account was created.

    I think that the banks riddled with so many fraud and theft cases, that it is better to keep quite, and let the customers suffer the loss.
    Acknowledging that there is fraud with in the banking system, means that they have to pay up for the stolen money.
    Victor - Knowledge is a blessing or a curse, your current circumstances make you decide!
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    This is such a scary scenario, but also a reality.

    Noel:

    Nedbank certainly have something to answer to about increasing your limit to such a large amount without doing triple checks. Chances are they won't answer to it though.

    In Vodacom's case it depends on why they know it was done fraudulently. Internal or external fraud? If external, how do they know it was done fraudulently? If its internal, they are unlikely to admit to it because of the liability of doing so.

    Unfortunately the fact that its under criminal investigation is of no help to you. Even if the investigation is successful, the result is that the perpetrators go to jail and not that you get your money back.

    Producing original ID's is not terribly difficult for organised syndicates, which is why FICA and RICA are such a waste of time and effort. The user who opened the accounts or logged the changes is not necessarily at fault.

    My personal opinion is that the banking system is largely at fault in this type of crime. Its affect could be significantly reduced by allowing two things to change:

    1) Slow down the rate at which cash can be drawn or funds transferred out of accounts. They don't do this because customers (like us) demand instant access to funds. Longer waiting periods increase the chances that funds can be withdrawn.
    2) Increased reaction speed and the ability to freeze accounts temporarily, even if at another bank, or at the very least freeze recently transferred funds. As soon as a fraud is suspected, any bank should be able to initiate this freeze. Even if its just for say 48 hours, it gives the chance for an initial, superficial investigation to take place and for the bank to verify who did the transaction. This is open to abuse I suppose by people reneging on legitimate transactions and pretending a fraud had occurred, but if the funds are simply frozen as opposed to reversed, this will not benefit these people. I did fraud investigation for a while and could never understand why this process never happened.

    Any ideas on how we can prevent the rest of us falling victim to this type of attack?

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    Diamond Member Justloadit's Avatar
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    I have a number of profiles to access my bank account. Each profile has a limited amount of access granted.
    I very rarely use my main profile, which reduces the chance of an eaves drop somewhere.
    So one profile can do statements, another profile can make payments to a maximum amount per day.
    With FNB this is possible. I have also enable email contact, so both an email, and an SMS are simultaneously sent. Even disabling the email contact, will still send an email to state that it is being disabled, at least there is some form of communication.

    With Standard bank, business banking requires that you have a special key on you, which generates a code, you then use this code to access the account. This requires you to both have the Cellphone and the code generator simultaneously. This reduces internal fraud to practically nil, unless they have your digital key generator.
    Victor - Knowledge is a blessing or a curse, your current circumstances make you decide!
    Solar and LED lighting solutions - www.microsolve.co.za

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    BusFact (20-Oct-14)

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    Site Caretaker Dave A's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BusFact View Post
    Any ideas on how we can prevent the rest of us falling victim to this type of attack?
    Probably top of everyone's mind that is reading this thread!
    The trouble with opportunity is it normally comes dressed up as work.

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    Thanks for your suggestion. I have spoken to Noseweek and they have indicated they might use the story but haven't said anything definite yet.

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    Hi Ian
    Nedank has replied after some prompting that the police have to subpoena them. Will keep you updated.

    Noel

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    Thank you for your comments. Very interesting. My only input at the moment is to use a dedicated cell phone only for banking.

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    Dave A (21-Oct-14)

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