Metals Industry strike - my take

[tec0]

Look, the scenario that I painted is exactly what occurs during a strike. I would like to know how you would resolve the situation in the short and long term. You whinging and whining serves no purpose whatsoever. Do something positive for once and tell us how you would resolve the problem that I pose. The reason that you don't want to try to tell us how you would solve it is probably that you don't actually know!

you have no idea do you? Well I will leave it at that.

As for employer employee relations.

Firstly establish the types of output you will have “short term products” and “long term products” Then establish what type of employee you need to keep your long term products going and what type of employee you need for short term.

Long term employees you put on a 3 month contract “renewable as needed” your short term employees I would place on a 1 month contract and will replace all of them every 2 month. Thus they don’t hang around long enough to cause damage or get angry. This will solve your maid from hell problem. BUT remember because you are replacing ALL employees training will be a constant and your output will vary. So there is an upside and a downside.

The 3 month contract or “long term employee” will be given more responsibility “or less” depending on your needs BUT you will have to handle all sensitive documentation, funds and day to day problems as you will have no real “team leader” as your long term employees are not permanent.
Upsides are you can hire and fire at your heart’s content by simply not renewing contracts. No disciplinary action needed it is for the most part clean.

BUT I would employ a labour lawyer to get your fine print ready and make sure you are within the letter of the law. This is not optional as a bad contract can cost you and your company. So if you do it, do it right.

Again I am not a fan for outsourcing as you and your company will be dependant and that may or may not work.

What I am doing now is, I do all the work myself and only higher a person from month to month as needed. Because the scale of what I do can vary.

That said one last thing, if everyone is expendable don’t expect loyalty that said you get good people that will do their best for their employer so again your own discursion is key.

Last thing tell me I whine again show disrespect and you can write to the ghosts of times past I will not respond.

peace.

[tec0]

Just as a last thing, if my company is strong enough I would hire permanent staff in a heartbeat.

[adrianh]

you have no idea do you? Well I will leave it at that.

As for employer employee relations.

Firstly establish the types of output you will have “short term products” and “long term products” Then establish what type of employee you need to keep your long term products going and what type of employee you need for short term.

Long term employees you put on a 3 month contract “renewable as needed” your short term employees I would place on a 1 month contract and will replace all of them every 2 month. Thus they don’t hang around long enough to cause damage or get angry. This will solve your maid from hell problem. BUT remember because you are replacing ALL employees training will be a constant and your output will vary. So there is an upside and a downside.

The 3 month contract or “long term employee” will be given more responsibility “or less” depending on your needs BUT you will have to handle all sensitive documentation, funds and day to day problems as you will have no real “team leader” as your long term employees are not permanent.
Upsides are you can hire and fire at your heart’s content by simply not renewing contracts. No disciplinary action needed it is for the most part clean.

BUT I would employ a labour lawyer to get your fine print ready and make sure you are within the letter of the law. This is not optional as a bad contract can cost you and your company. So if you do it, do it right.

Again I am not a fan for outsourcing as you and your company will be dependant and that may or may not work.

What I am doing now is, I do all the work myself and only higher a person from month to month as needed. Because the scale of what I do can vary.

That said one last thing, if everyone is expendable don’t expect loyalty that said you get good people that will do their best for their employer so again your own discursion is key.

Last thing tell me I whine again show disrespect and you can write to the ghosts of times past I will not respond.

peace.

tec0 - Interesting but you still haven't answered the question: How will you resolve the scenario that I created?

Come on, use the brain that God gave you and think what you would do if it was your maid sitting outside your Wendy house.

[Dave A]

Make no mistake readers, we are in for a hell of a ride... These strikes and "movements" and public demonstration is only the beginning. As our two major infrastructures a lingering towards collapse we can only hope that the powers that be wake up and get smart. Because we are heading towards a point of no return.

Our government will have to intervene and I hope they do so wisely and responsibly and decisively.

I tend to agree. However, I regret I'm inclined to disagree with you as to the cause of the disaster looming large.

Perhaps the thing I find most ironic is the drive against labour brokers. Take a step back and look at the big picture. If the unions have their way; if everything is done just the way they want, they would be the new labour brokers, just far more powerful and paid their slice a different way.

But the big reason why we seem headed for disaster is -

At the moment our course is not being set by workers wanting a better wage.
It's not being driven by workers deserving a better wage.
It's not even being driven by alleged employer affordability to provide a better wage.
All totally irrelevant.

What we're looking at right now is a power struggle; between rival trade unions, and between trade unions and government. Business, and our economy, is just being caught in the crossfire. And it is abundantly clear that the unions engaged in this power struggle do not give a damn what havoc they wreak along the way.

[tec0]

I tend to agree. However, I regret I'm inclined to disagree with you as to the cause of the disaster looming large.

Perhaps the thing I find most ironic is the drive against labour brokers. Take a step back and look at the big picture. If the unions have their way; if everything is done just the way they want, they would be the new labour brokers, just far more powerful and paid their slice a different way.

But the big reason why we seem headed for disaster is -

At the moment our course is not being set by workers wanting a better wage.
It's not being driven by workers deserving a better wage.
It's not even being driven by alleged employer affordability to provide a better wage.
All totally irrelevant.

What we're looking at right now is a power struggle; between rival trade unions, and between trade unions and government. Business, and our economy, is just being caught in the crossfire. And it is abundantly clear that the unions engaged in this power struggle do not give a damn what havoc they wreak along the way.

I am sorry Dave but you are wrong on this one.

Right now there is a company with over 2000 employees, 4 years ago this company was taken over by an “international” company. There first order of business transfer all existing clients over to their other branches “outside” South Africa and then drive the equipment to the ground here without maintenance and now this plant is facing closure.

why to eliminate a degree of competition. The company may close down as soon as end this year. "If the situation is unchanged"

This is but one part of the things to come.

1@b0ur br0ker$

Right now you can no longer find permanent employment nor is there an option for permanent employment in larger industries. Secondly they are a hidden tax on both the employer and employee AND what the employer don’t want to see is the fact that they are also being enslaved because they have no control over their employees and secondly there is no room for negotiation and if prices goes up and you "the business" can no longer pay your company close down. The end... there is virtually no survival strategy.

If a single set of entities owns all the skill of this country then you "the business" are working for them the end. In the old times this was considered slavery and was so considered for a reason. In short this system isn't healthy BUT due to spite and deliberate action form the employers side this gets overlooked. They are thinking "I don't have to deal with unions anymore" But they don't consider "oh crap my competition can offer to pay more for the skill then I can and now I am losing everything"

Skill is in limited supply and if you cannot hire them someone else can and your business will suffer for it. With permanent employment you still have a chance to keep your employees but because it is simply to much "effort" people outsource but lets see how this plays out.

[tec0]

What we're looking at right now is a power struggle; between rival trade unions, and between trade unions and government. Business, and our economy, is just being caught in the crossfire. And it is abundantly clear that the unions engaged in this power struggle do not give a damn what havoc they wreak along the way.

Hypothetically > Economic assassination starts with unrest within the masses and slowly progress towards the point where outside investors lose interest to invest. By making negotiations impossible and constant news of damage to fabricators, mining and other infrastructures our wealth devaluate and our exports can no longer cope. This will continue to a point where the entity responsible of the unrest will try to gain power by using the will of the masses. What will follow are protest, unrest and polarization of sensitive topics.

So tell me have you watched the news lately?

[desA]

Hypothetically > Economic assassination starts with unrest within the masses and slowly progress towards the point where outside investors lose interest to invest. By making negotiations impossible and constant news of damage to fabricators, mining and other infrastructures our wealth devaluate and our exports can no longer cope. This will continue to a point where the entity responsible of the unrest will try to gain power by using the will of the masses. What will follow are protest, unrest and polarization of sensitive topics.

Looking at the present difficulties in the SA marketplace, I suspect your hypothesis is fair well set.

[Dave A]

I am sorry Dave but you are wrong on this one.

I'm sorry.
You say I'm wrong, and then you make a post that entirely supports my point.
You say Adrian is wrong, then you make a whole argument that supports his point.

Just where am I wrong again exactly?

why to eliminate a degree of competition

And there is no chance that the decision is actually driven by the local plant being less competitive compared to their other operations?

Why did they wait 4 years to shut it down?

Is there no chance that if the local operation was actually the better option to trade from, they wouldn't rather have moved their operations here and shut down some of their less competitive operations elsewhere?

You keep blaming business for the mess. Understand this - it's the trading conditions that affect business's decisions in this sort of thing. And a huge part of that is a skilled, efficient and reliable labour force.

How are we doing on that front?

[Greig Whitton]

Long term employees you put on a 3 month contract “renewable as needed” your short term employees I would place on a 1 month contract and will replace all of them every 2 month.

I recommend familiarising yourself with the amendments to the Labour Relations Act since the contracting practices that you are proposing will be illegal.

[tec0]

Just where am I wrong again exactly?

Well when I say you are wrong it is because you are looking at the facts the wrong way. You are spot on about the rest

The plant I mentioned is being kept in ownership so that competition cannot buy it and use it against the holding company. Also I think because of global situations they may well rethink their strategy and fix the place up. Here is me hoping that this will be the case.
As for the rest, you know as well as I do that businesses have a large part to play in labour relations and or the lack there off. I am not saying that unions are getting it right all the time but nor does businesses. The systems we see today exist because someone messed up at some point.