Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 12

Thread: COC nightmares

  1. #1
    Bronze Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    174
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 36 Times in 30 Posts

    COC nightmares

    I don't know how you guys stop yourself from going mad with these COC's. I generally never do COC's on things I haven't wired myself, ie for when someone is selling there house. I have to do one for a gooood customer (consistent industrial/commercial work) on there house. Seriously, who put 78 down lights on one circuit. There is no space in the board and 3 under floor heating circuits are put in one breaker. Its all earthed and ins res is good but as soon as the next person moves in and puts all the lights on or puts the under floor heating on - pop goes the breaker and ring ring goes my phone. Last domestic coc i swear, day 4 i'm going back again to see what else is wrong.

  2. #2
    Platinum Member desA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    South East Asia
    Posts
    1,023
    Thanks
    512
    Thanked 126 Times in 99 Posts
    I generally never do COC's on things I haven't wired myself, ie for when someone is selling there house. I have to do one for a gooood customer (consistent industrial/commercial work) on there house.
    Apologies if this sounds rude, but - what an incredible conflict of interests you have got yourself into.
    In search of South African Technology Nuggets(R), for sale & trading in South East Asia.

  3. #3
    Site Caretaker Dave A's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Durban, South Africa
    Posts
    20,980
    Thanks
    3,055
    Thanked 2,463 Times in 2,068 Posts
    Blog Entries
    12
    Quote Originally Posted by skatingsparks View Post
    I don't know how you guys stop yourself from going mad with these COC's.
    I nearly made a post last week after a series of particularly painful enlightening moments. It was going to be titled "I think I need a holiday" because I was starting to have trouble keeping my composure. Thought better of it after reading my signature.

    It can be very frustrating at times though. The line between compliance, design and maintenance certainly isn't as easy to hold as one might think. I've had the most mind-bending conversations on the topic over the years.

    Let me share one thing that never ceases to amaze me -

    Issue a COC. Weeks later (or more) the geyser element or thermostat has gone faulty and there's no hot water when the purchaser moves in. The COC issuing electrician gets the call, with loads of verbal of how useless they are and "how could they have issued a COC with a faulty geyser element" in the installation.

    The remarkable frequency with which this particular problem crops up has led to me to believe that geyser elements have very sensitive souls, just can't handle the trauma of being deserted by their previous owners, and far too often die as a result.

    I doubt it's an issue that any electrician in the COC game is a stranger to, and I've always taken it as something that just goes with the territory. Until some time last year.

    I was doing a round of talks with various estate agencies when at one of them it emerged this "faulty geyser" problem was not actually the "number one" problem I thought it was - apparently purchasers discovering faulty air conditioning units when they move in is a far more regular occurrence.

    Whether this is because air conditioners have even more sensitive souls than geysers, or because sellers are less inclined to maintain air conditioners in tip top working order, I won't even hazard to guess - but I do know I've never had to deal with an upset purchaser (or estate agent) because of a faulty air conditioner yet!

    How come when the geyser goes faulty, there is this expectation of the COC issuing electrician. But when the aircon goes faulty, there is no such expectation?

    Go figure!

    Even more frustrating when my own organisation shoots itself in the foot at times
    But at least that's a problem within easy distance to fix, and tends not to give me as much verbal along the way.

    It's a tougher game than one would think - that's for sure. Understanding the regs is barely half of the challenge (although it obviously helps ).
    The trouble with opportunity is it normally comes dressed up as work.

  4. #4
    Platinum Member desA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    South East Asia
    Posts
    1,023
    Thanks
    512
    Thanked 126 Times in 99 Posts
    A solution, perhaps:
    1. Geyser element. Inform customer of the statistics - offer to replace, as a precaution. If refused - he signs waiver.
    2. A/C - suggest client has a service - even recommend associates etc. Here the biggie is gas leaks from standing system - in all likelihood. If refused - he signs waiver.

    When new owner calls - supply him info pack, including signed waivers. They then move onto seller for remedy.
    In search of South African Technology Nuggets(R), for sale & trading in South East Asia.

  5. Thanks given for this post:

    Reginald (18-May-14)

  6. #5
    Diamond Member Justloadit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Johannesburg
    Posts
    2,671
    Thanks
    88
    Thanked 544 Times in 460 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1
    @desA All good and well, but Ian's was referring to the failure of the equipment when the new owner moved in. As far as I am concerned, there is no warranty on equipment with a sale, unless the seller is passing on the original equipment warranty card. The main problem in today's sales of brick and mortar are defects in the building, which must be reported to the seller, eg leaking roof, damp walls and such likes, the failure of electrical equipment can not be held responsible to the seller, it could be wear and tear. If the failure can be attributed to electrical wiring, then the COC would come into question
    Victor - Knowledge is a blessing or a curse, your current circumstances make you decide!
    Solar and LED lighting solutions - www.microsolve.co.za

  7. #6
    Platinum Member desA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    South East Asia
    Posts
    1,023
    Thanks
    512
    Thanked 126 Times in 99 Posts
    ^ Agree.

    My thought was that if the issuer of the COC were to offer to check/replace/repair/organise the potentially defective items for the seller, then there would be less issue at handover. The seller would then be seen as having acted in utmost good faith.

    If seller signs waivers of advice, then the 'utmost good faith' part becomes less robust.

    Knowing the SA psyche, the new owners would be looking for any scapegoat they could find. Electrical - ahah easy - grab the COC fellow & squeeze.
    In search of South African Technology Nuggets(R), for sale & trading in South East Asia.

  8. #7
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Germiston, South Africa
    Posts
    252
    Thanks
    12
    Thanked 33 Times in 30 Posts
    I really don't understand all the hype around this. I simply refer them back to their COC, on which the very first line on the test report states:
    "NOTE 3 This report covers the circuits for fixed appliances, but does not cover the actual appliances, for example stoves, geysers, air conditioning and refrigeration plant and lights. "

  9. Thanks given for this post:

    desA (16-May-14)

  10. #8
    Site Caretaker Dave A's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Durban, South Africa
    Posts
    20,980
    Thanks
    3,055
    Thanked 2,463 Times in 2,068 Posts
    Blog Entries
    12
    Quote Originally Posted by Leecatt View Post
    I really don't understand all the hype around this. I simply refer them back to their COC, on which the very first line on the test report states:
    "NOTE 3 This report covers the circuits for fixed appliances, ...
    What? The geyser element isn't part of the circuit?



    You see, the electrical contracting industry has a specific idea as to what constitutes the circuit that is covered, but that specific idea isn't necessarily what is in the client's mind.

    If the COC stated "This report covers the circuits supplying power to fixed appliances...", it might help some. But then there are still more than enough issues that cause confusion. For example:

    If the COC only covers the circuits supplying power to the appliance, why is an open light fitting in a bathroom not compliant and has to be changed to a closed fitting?

    Or -

    Why is it a problem if there is exposed wiring in the fixed appliance itself?
    Surely that's outside the scope of the COC?

    (I'm mainly playing devil's advocate here BTW - but it is the sort of query and argument you have to deal with in this line)
    The trouble with opportunity is it normally comes dressed up as work.

  11. #9
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Germiston, South Africa
    Posts
    252
    Thanks
    12
    Thanked 33 Times in 30 Posts
    The actual appliance itself is still covered by the various safety clauses which are embedded within the SANS.
    READ THE BOOK!

  12. #10
    Site Caretaker Dave A's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Durban, South Africa
    Posts
    20,980
    Thanks
    3,055
    Thanked 2,463 Times in 2,068 Posts
    Blog Entries
    12
    Quote Originally Posted by Leecatt View Post
    The actual appliance itself is still covered by the various safety clauses which are embedded within the SANS.
    READ THE BOOK!
    *Client goes running to estate agent*
    Your electrician is soooo rude! I don't know why you use that assh0le!

    *your phone rings*
    The trouble with opportunity is it normally comes dressed up as work.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Did you like this article? Share it with your favourite social network.

Did you like this article? Share it with your favourite social network.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •