Oscar - SA's OJ case

[Hermes14]

QUOTE=desA;107888]SA needs a total re-write of its laws, to suit its present circumstances. Justice needs to be cascaded down to everyone... The days of an elitist legal system must surely be relegated to the trash heaps of history.

Napoleon apparently orchestrated such a re-write of French Law during his time.[/QUOTE]

Who would you like to have re-writing the new law, & how would you suggest the law be re-written?

This trial has many South Africans glued to the screen or radio...

According to carte blanche (dstv channel 199) this trial has worldwide coverage.
The advantage is it has been very educational for anyone wanting to pursue a career in South African criminal law.
The disadvantage is it has been very educational to criminals aswell.

[Citizen X]

Personally, I'm looking forward to 2 events this week, the State closing it's case and the Defence opening its case

[Hermes14]

Then it will be Adv Nel's turn to knit pick the witness’s statement & that will be interesting.
I see Oscar has had to sell his house to cover legal costs.
http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/Os...costs-20140320

[Dave A]

The greatest obstacle to justice for all would seem to be legal fees

[sterne.law@gmail.com]

Unfortunately so. It's not so much the hourly rate, which is what many concentrate on, but the time involved.

[desA]

Two systems of law:

1. Innocent until proven guilty.
1.1 One person can tie up immense resources who have to 'prove' the case against the baddie.
1.2 Clogs the legal system.
1.3 Baddie can carry on as 'normal' until the court finally stops him - if ever.

2. Guilty until proven innocent.
2.1 Baddie has to do the running around to prove his innocence.
2.2 Far less stress on the legal system.
2.3 Baddie's hands are tied & further damage limited.

[desA]

Dave A stated:
The greatest obstacle to justice for all would seem to be legal fees

Fees & wasted time.

[sterne.law@gmail.com]

I think the media is not potraying fees responsibly and they refer only to top earners.I believe that supply and demand economics control pricing.Attorneys fees range from R400 per hour to R3000 an hour.*
Counsel, may consult at R1500 upwards, appearance from R1000(unopposed) and R4-R10 000 (opposed)Given the price range, it means there is a broad spectrum, skills probably comensurate..thats life. We cant all drive luxury cars, big houses etc. Things cant and wont be equal, thats capitalism.
You choose your legal assistance and skill based on what you can afford.Re the R50 000 per day for senior counsel. Yes R50000 equates to say R6000 per hour, but what is not mentioned or taken into account is that prior to the day he may have spent 6-8 hours researching and preparing. Now we looking at R3000 per hour, not a bad rate for a SC. As a litigant I could use junior counsel (say 5 years experience) and perhaps my bill would be R10000 per day, or effectively R700 per hour (8 hours at court and 6 for prep).

If government wasted less money on litigating unneccessarily, or punished officials who allowed matters go to court, we would have pleny spare cash for litigants. Never mind what we pay for officials, especially the presidency, both personally and officially, to litigate.Yes, access to justice is important. Unfortunately litigating is expensive. Even at R500 per hour, puts it beyond the majority. This is becuase people underestimate the number of hours that go into a matter. Even if you get in and out in 15 hours, you still need R25 000 at the ready, and thats a real straight forward matter to be done in 15 hours.

Access to justice requires not capping of fees but more FREE services by the profession.*There are a number of legal products for R100 or so a month, allowing people to get protection. That creates a level of access. If you cant pay the R100 then you are stuck irrespective at what rate fees are capped.

Law firms and advocates deliver a mountain of free services. I worked for ProBono.Org, a NGO that gets lawyers and advocates to act probono. Bowman Gilfillan delivers R20 million a year in free legal services. Norton Rose, Cliffe Dekker,werksmens, Weber Wentzel and others all deliver. The advocactes at all bars do probono hours. I cant put a figure but conservativley it easily tops R500 million.

Probono work is compulsory, the problem or challenge is managing it. It cant just be goto any law firm and they will help you.*At this stage only the law soceity and ProBono.Org do this. Of course one can approach the court for pauper proceedings. This is what government needs to concentrate on, how to manage the process. Given the 20 000 attornyes in practice, unlocking the 24 hrs each, equates to almost 500 000 hours..thats access to justice. This excludes counsel.

Attorneys can certainly put the free hours in. If you are booked 8 hours a day, then you can give up 5 hours a month, you are making plenty. If you only getting 3 hours a day, then you have time to do some free work, given that time is money.

[wynn]

If you have a legal problem there should be a legislated minimum that an attorney charges to listen to your side of the story, thereafter, if he feels you have a case, he must take it on contingency, if he doesn't win he doesn't get paid, that will free up a lot of space taken up by lawyers simply charging to represent wealthy clients to outlast not so wealthy ones.
Also if an attorney sees the defendant doesn't stand a hope in hell of winning he will rather recommend a settlement.

[Marq]

You choose your legal assistance and skill based on what you can afford

This seems to be crux of the matter. I can only afford somebody charging R100/h and find myself going up against legal council whose skill base and name allows them to charge R3-6k/h. What are my odds of winning?

The legal products that cost R100 a month are not an answer for any problem beyond a paperwork shuffle. I have tested them and found the council rather wanting and it is doubtful that some of them are even qualified. A dangerous situation to be in when you are trying to win a case thats not so obvious.

I dont know that supply and demand is that obvious either. I have yet to see an attorney drop their price or suggest a cheaper alternative when I have needed assistance and baulked at the fees charged.

I think there should be a maximum fee per hour per council level so that one can determine a possible ceiling on each scenario.

I find it ludicrous and opportunistic that one has to sell ones main asset like a house just to pay somebody who doesn't/cant guarantee a favourable outcome. Assume you are innocent and have been wrongly charged with a huge crime. You may end up out of jail, but your life is ruined, you have no where to stay and no resources to start again that easily. The council who only had their maybe reputation to lose, sits up their ivory tower drinking champagne and celebrating their win without a thought of their now ex-client who is about to rob a grocery store so that he can eat something.

Perhaps another methodology could be to make the council be equally charged with their clients charge and if the case is lost, let them do the same time. Perhaps then the fees could be justified.