Cultural vs national identity

[ians]

I am a "European African" in other words like the minority African American, I am in the same situation here, only difference is here I am discriminated against because of the colour of my skin cant get government contracts, cant even get a job at Macdonalds

[tec0]

I am a "European African" in other words like the minority African American, I am in the same situation here, only difference is here I am discriminated against because of the colour of my skin cant get government contracts, cant even get a job at Macdonalds

Not to mention the countless red tape in owning operating a business...

[adrianh]

South Africa is a baby in terms of national identity. How long have different nations lived here. Think about the Chinese, it is said that they have been living in China for over 10,000 years. Look at Europe, they have a very long national / cultural history.

People have always and will always identify with their own kind, why, well why do you identify with your family and they with theirs in turn. All of us are related in some way or another, the difference between us and older cultures is that their families trace back for hundreds and thousands of years within the same culture and nation.

Us, the American Australians and many others are the bastard children of our parent cultures and nations. If one looks at it in that sense then the black cultures have a longer history than that of the white bastard children.

Food for thought....my own train of thought sometimes bewilders me too....

[flumpty]

This discussion is incredibly disturbing.

We have no control over where we are born. The nation in which we are born, determines our birth rights. We are the fruit of that nation's loins, so to speak.

Should we try to superimpose the historical baggage & bondage of our forefathers/fore-mothers onto our future lives?

Would it not perhaps, be simpler to walk our own road, free from hindrance & bondage?

You got it right. It's a political weapon, used with incredible hypocrisy.

I notice that there is a problem with identity with white south africans. As soon as they emigrate they quickly become "south-African born" Americans, Australians or Brits who happened to grow up in ZA, etc. etc. (and by implication, lived here as foreigners). Their identity is attacked in a pincer movement - from themselves, by being absolutely fed up to death with the country and not wanting anything to do with it, and also by the world who feel that whites cannot be African. I'd be interested to know how their children feel. I mean would they have any affiliation to ZA at all?

[tec0]

I have a feeling we are moving towards an end of something. The first world will soon demand the shutdown of our power-stations now you can thank the green movement for that and there pollution BS. But I digress.

If I am not South African enough to be called a South African then screw it. Give me back my international identity and I will go back to my “home country” A first world country where there are no discriminating laws and people screaming about who has more entitlement. There I will be able to live get a good job and contribute to my so called “home country” I will do this gladly.

If I am not good enough then that is there decision not mine. But once they make that decision they damn well better stick with it because I will not be accepting any apologies and I will not be a part of anything they do, I will not help in any way or form.

Is this what you want?

[cyppokagain]

I don't know my view on my identity goes far deeper than what you have here. In Russia there was an association with ones region and or city/oblast/krai + ethnic lineage. Ergo a person could be your land kin neighbor because they are from the same city/region as you its' not really that close but more like an icebreaker where you know your from the same place. Here in the states everyone has their little ethnic anchors and feels a little different.

I actually like this it makes everyone feel a bit special.

My guess is there really isn't that much regionalization in SA yet nobody feels Capey or Capetownie or Gautengy to most people its just a name or a landscape without underlying people or networks. Even in the states there is some regionalization Southerner, Midwesterner, New Englander ergo these people are like this those are like that behavioral patterns etc... even New Yorkers and Bostonians etc...

[Blurock]

The problem that I have with culture is that it encourages elitism. My culture is better than yours. My language or my religion is superior to yours etc etc. I have no problem with people observing their cultural traditions though, as long as it is not exclusive and offensive to other cultures.

I would rather identify with the community in which I am staying and assimilate and blend into that "culture". For instance if I lived in Jeffreys Bay, I would associate with the surfing culture and become part of it. If I had to live in Pofadder or Put-Sonder-Water I would probably blend into the agri culture and learn how to make biltong.

The problem with some immigrants all over the world is that they do not blend into the local community and become part of it. If you want to go live in Australia (God forbid) you have to become an Australian. You must speak the language, embrace their culture and support their sports teams. Don't go live in another country and then critisize them for being who they are. We see that all over Europe; immigrants fleeing from their own countries, but then not wanting to become proper citizens of their host country. They try to establish a mini Honduras or Pakistan or homeland in their adopted country. That is where the conflict starts.

[Justloadit]

Got to agree with Blurock. There has even been demand to change the local religion, and in some cases immigrants have been successful.
This is my house, if you wanna live here, you abide by my rules, if you don't like it, then f~ck off and go back to where you came from, don't try and preach to me.

[cyppokagain]

The problem with some immigrants all over the world is that they do not blend into the local community and become part of it. If you want to go live in Australia (God forbid) you have to become an Australian. You must speak the language, embrace their culture and support their sports teams. Don't go live in another country and then critisize them for being who they are. We see that all over Europe; immigrants fleeing from their own countries, but then not wanting to become proper citizens of their host country. They try to establish a mini Honduras or Pakistan or homeland in their adopted country. That is where the conflict starts.

the problem is the host country gov't from local level up may want non-assimilation for a whole host of reasons from political electorate splits (Democrats vs Republicans) to the general divide and rule. You also have 'ethnic diversity' encouragement and basically squashing of discussion on the issue in certain countries.

also drive for cheap labor by companies trumps some of what you say as well.

in US every major city has their own little enclaves of similar people doesn't really matter if you think about the whole country being made by immigrants.

[dix]

Perhaps. But she also attaches consequences to the point. Which I guess is where this line of enquiry is heading.


Well there's my "apparent" issue right there, which is what some replies have picked on.

I am (to my mind anyway) quite simply an urban, English speaking South African (who by virtue of inherited genetic code is white). I have absolutely no affinity or sense of connection to my "British ancestry", which lies so far back in history it certainly has no bearing on how I feel I should be defined today.

I've even visited the UK, and I had absolutely no sense of connection with the people or the place whatsoever. A foreign land, with foreign people. In fact all it did was strengthen my identity as an African (who happens to be white), much like my visits to other parts of the world too.

In essence, my cultural identity that I associate myself with is a South African one. It doesn't exist anywhere else - it has evolved here.

Thus probably easier for me to say than for others, I guess - but ultimately it seems to me this emotional attachment to historical cultural heritage and trying to use it to justify one's presence in a country etc. just creates problems. What we should be dealing with is the current situation - the here and now.

Society evolves.
Culture evolves too.
And as it evolves, it doesn't necessarily wipe out the history of that culture.

Most of all, we can't allow really old history to define and dictate our present or future.

So if I was born in Europe I can be an English man who happens to be black? Please man, Africa refer to the continent and Africans refers to Black people as much as Europe refers to the Continent and Ueropeans to english people.

We could well say African people need to awake and fix their legislation so that your mother doesn't come here for birth so that you can claim belonging.

Altogether it would be rude for black people to claim land and cultural rights in Europe because the mother gave birth right there