Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 35

Thread: mega - alteration to electrical installation

  1. #1
    New Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    cape town
    Posts
    1
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    mega - alteration to electrical installation

    I wonder if someone can help me. I stay in a very old house " fuses instead of c/breakers" A few years ago a electrician installed a new geyser and
    on the wooden board a e/leakage and a sp&n. The e/leakage only switches off the sp&n. If i sell my house (1) Do i need to upgrade my d/b to c/breakers and (2) when the e/leakage was installed should my plug circuit not have been put on e/leakage.

  2. #2
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    cape town
    Posts
    297
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 42 Times in 36 Posts
    the electrician only needed to make the geyser circuit compliant ( if thats what he was working on). a geyser doesnt have to be on e/leakage though.
    if i do a coc i insist on getting rid of all fuses and install a new db. fuses arent allowed in domestic installations. however there was some clause about houses built before a certain date.

  3. #3
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Germiston, South Africa
    Posts
    252
    Thanks
    12
    Thanked 33 Times in 30 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by mega View Post
    I wonder if someone can help me. I stay in a very old house " fuses instead of c/breakers" A few years ago a electrician installed a new geyser and
    on the wooden board a e/leakage and a sp&n. The e/leakage only switches off the sp&n. If i sell my house (1) Do i need to upgrade my d/b to c/breakers and (2) when the e/leakage was installed should my plug circuit not have been put on e/leakage.
    I dont understand the term sp&n

    The certificate should have been issued when the work was completed

    With the installation of a new geyser comes the requirement for a geyser isolator.
    The installation of a geyser isolator is regarded as an alteration to the existing circuit.
    The addition of an earth leakage would have also been regarded as an alteration to the circuit.

    Now read the portion of the Regulations below, especially section (3) in whole

    Certificate of compliance
    7. (1) Subject to the provisions of subregulation (3), every user or lessor of an electrical installation, as the case may be, shall have a valid certificate of compliance for that installation in the form of Annexure 1, which shall be accompanied by a test report in the format approved by the chief inspector, in respect of every such electrical installation.
    (2)
    Subject to the provisions of subregulation (3), every user or lessor of an electrical installation, as the case may be, shall on request produce the certificate of compliance for that electrical installation to an inspector, a supplier or, subject to regulation 4(1), an approved inspection authority for electrical installations.
    (3)
    Subregulation (1) shall not apply to an electrical installation that existed prior to 23 October 1992, and where there was no change of ownership after 1 March 1994: Provided that, if any addition or alteration is effected to such an electrical installation, the user or lessor of the electrical installation, as the case may be, shall obtain a certificate of compliance for the whole electrical installation, whereafter the provisions of subregulation (1) shall be applicable to such electrical installation.


    In order to issue the said certificate the db board must be brought into compliance with the latest regulations in force at the time of the alteration.
    This requires that the fuses be removed and circuit breakers be installed

    Yes your plugs must be fed from an earth leakage

    Your electrical installation is now non-compliant and your insurance company have the right to repudiate any insurance claim resulting from an electrical fault, as set out in your contract with them.
    To make a mistake is human, to learn from that mistake is knowledge and knowledge is strength.

  4. Thank given for this post:

    AndyD (29-Jul-13), Dave A (30-Jul-13)

  5. #4
    Diamond Member AndyD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Cape Town
    Posts
    4,403
    Thanks
    513
    Thanked 854 Times in 687 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Leecatt View Post
    I dont understand the term sp&n
    SP&N MCB is a single pole and neutral minature circuit breaker. It's actually a 2-pole device that isolates the phase and neutral when tripped. They usually only monitor the phase conductor for overload and they incorporate thermal and magnetic tripping mechanisms. I think (but I might be wrong) that they're also staggered trip with live pole being first to break and last to make when reset. The CBI samite mount version has a lever that's half green and half white which denotes overload protection on the live pole and isolation only on the neutral side.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	QAN2-13-10A-240V-1+N-SAMITE-CBI-BREAKER.png 
Views:	446 
Size:	25.0 KB 
ID:	3753
    _______________________________________________
    I am special and so is Vanash.
    _______________________________________________

  6. #5
    Platinum Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    KZN
    Posts
    1,587
    Thanks
    76
    Thanked 138 Times in 118 Posts
    Commonly referred to as a geyser combo breaker , for the domestic electricians. As illustrated a Cbi unit, not used very often in new installations due to their ridiculous pricing and earth leakage unit failures.

  7. #6
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Germiston, South Africa
    Posts
    252
    Thanks
    12
    Thanked 33 Times in 30 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by AndyD View Post
    SP&N MCB is a single pole and neutral minature circuit breaker. It's actually a 2-pole device that isolates the phase and neutral when tripped. They usually only monitor the phase conductor for overload and they incorporate thermal and magnetic tripping mechanisms. I think (but I might be wrong) that they're also staggered trip with live pole being first to break and last to make when reset. The CBI samite mount version has a lever that's half green and half white which denotes overload protection on the live pole and isolation only on the neutral side.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	QAN2-13-10A-240V-1+N-SAMITE-CBI-BREAKER.png 
Views:	446 
Size:	25.0 KB 
ID:	3753
    Thanks Andy, I know it as an isolator circuit breaker.
    To make a mistake is human, to learn from that mistake is knowledge and knowledge is strength.

  8. #7
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Germiston, South Africa
    Posts
    252
    Thanks
    12
    Thanked 33 Times in 30 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Leecatt View Post
    (3)
    Subregulation (1) shall not apply to an electrical installation that existed prior to 23 October 1992, and where there was no change of ownership after 1 March 1994: Provided that, if any addition or alteration is effected to such an electrical installation, the user or lessor of the electrical installation, as the case may be, shall obtain a certificate of compliance for the whole electrical installation, whereafter the provisions of subregulation (1) shall be applicable to such electrical installation.
    An interesting point here is that in the past it was required that an electrical certificate be issued for "at least the alteration provided the rest of the installation is compliant" now any alteration requires that the entire electrical installation be re-certified.
    To make a mistake is human, to learn from that mistake is knowledge and knowledge is strength.

  9. #8
    Site Caretaker Dave A's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Durban, South Africa
    Posts
    20,980
    Thanks
    3,055
    Thanked 2,463 Times in 2,068 Posts
    Blog Entries
    12
    Quote Originally Posted by Leecatt View Post
    ...now any alteration requires that the entire electrical installation be re-certified.
    I'm not sure that re-certified is an appropriate term to use here as there would be no previous certificate of compliance in place.

    Effectively, upon the addition or alteration under the conditions applicable to subreg 3, the entire installation would have to be certified for the first time.
    The trouble with opportunity is it normally comes dressed up as work.

  10. #9
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    cape town
    Posts
    297
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 42 Times in 36 Posts
    if i go install an extra plug, and tell the customer i have to inspect the complete house ,the customer will laugh at me.

  11. Thanks given for this post:

    ACEsterhuizen (02-Jun-15)

  12. #10
    Site Caretaker Dave A's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Durban, South Africa
    Posts
    20,980
    Thanks
    3,055
    Thanked 2,463 Times in 2,068 Posts
    Blog Entries
    12
    It seems the responsibility actually falls on the user or lessor. Perhaps the solution is to advise the client that given the addition they are supposed to now obtain a COC on the full installation, and await their further instructions in that regard.

    (Which admittedly may never come).
    The trouble with opportunity is it normally comes dressed up as work.

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Electrical Installation Costs
    By Tracsec in forum Electrical Contracting Industry Forum
    Replies: 29
    Last Post: 04-Oct-16, 09:55 PM
  2. [Article] New electrical installation regulations
    By QUINN in forum Electrical Contracting Industry Forum
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 11-Jun-14, 03:01 PM
  3. What constitues an alteration to an existing installation.
    By Leecatt in forum Electrical Contracting Industry Forum
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 06-Jul-12, 12:40 PM
  4. Who may work on an electrical installation?
    By douw in forum Electrical Contracting Industry Forum
    Replies: 37
    Last Post: 16-Apr-10, 11:57 AM

Did you like this article? Share it with your favourite social network.

Did you like this article? Share it with your favourite social network.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •