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Thread: eToll Letter to Zuma

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    Silver Member Darkangelyaya's Avatar
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    eToll Letter to Zuma

    The Government Has Stolen The Roads From The People
    URGENT NOTICE:
    To Jacob Zuma and the Government of South Africa.

    UBUNTU Party opposes the e-toll system and any other toll-gate activity in South Africa

    The UBUNTU Party is fundamentally and completely opposed to the introduction of the e-toll system on the roads of Gauteng.
    Furthermore we will continue to oppose all existing and any other proposed tolling systems on the roads of South Africa.
    We will continue to mobilise the people to stop and overturn your unlawful actions.
    The roads belong to the people.
    They do not belong to the government or any other private corporation that has unlawfully laid claim to it. This leads us to the conclusion that the government has unlawfully stolen our roads from the people.
    The government has no right to sell our roads to private corporations and foreign shareholders, allowing them to unlawfully hijack our people on the roads and extort money from them.
    This is in complete contravention of our Bill of Rights that gives us the freedom to travel in our own country without restriction.
    We urge you to start undoing this mess that you have created and restore the roads to the people. The government has a duty and responsibility to maintain and upgrade the roads for the benefit of the people to whom they are accountable and who the government is supposed to serve.
    We urge our government to start serving the people, and not serve themselves and/or multinational corporations who seem to influence them with financial muscle.
    Show the people that you have honour and integrity – do the right thing for the people whom you serve.

    In pure truth

    Michael of the family Tellinger (freeman on the land)
    UBUNTU Party Founder
    UBUNTU Team
    http://www.ubuntuparty.org.za/p/home.html
    contact@ubuntuparty.org.za
    Fax: 086 600 6420
    ~Anything or anyone who does not bring you alive, is too small for you~ Carina
    ~The moment you think you know it all, is the moment you know nothing~ Carina
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    Site Caretaker Dave A's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkangelyaya View Post
    Michael of the family Tellinger (freeman on the land)
    Oh dear!
    The trouble with opportunity is it normally comes dressed up as work.

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    Platinum Member Mike C's Avatar
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    Ok This sounds interesting ... also the thread about UBUNTU. But when I googled Michael Tellinger, I came up with a number of hits, one of which was this blogspot listing him as a crank.

    http://01universe.blogspot.com/2012/...k-michael.html

    Now I don't know the man at all and haven't read any of his books so am unable to make any judgment on his credentials or views. Many people with "revolutionary ideas" have before been called cranks - but then again there are many cranks who have been called cranks.

    Perhaps this should be a new thread???

    What are other people's opinion of this man's views?
    An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you do know and what you don't. - Anatole France

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    Silver Member Darkangelyaya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike C View Post
    Ok This sounds interesting ... also the thread about UBUNTU. But when I googled Michael Tellinger, I came up with a number of hits, one of which was this blogspot listing him as a crank.

    http://01universe.blogspot.com/2012/...k-michael.html

    Now I don't know the man at all and haven't read any of his books so am unable to make any judgment on his credentials or views. Many people with "revolutionary ideas" have before been called cranks - but then again there are many cranks who have been called cranks.

    Perhaps this should be a new thread???

    What are other people's opinion of this man's views?
    I know him personally, and have read most of his books. I have also attended an International Conference hosted by him in SA last year, with more than 20 respected international scientists and experts as speakers.

    He is an awesome man. He is humble and extremely intelligent, and really has the best interest of all humankind at heart. He has done many years of research for everything that he states, and applied his mind in a way few of us ever do; thinking outside of the box, and transcending our 'training/indoctrination'.

    He is a revolutionary.

    Don't you think we NEED a revolutionary? Are you happy living in a society where crime is rife, the rulers are corrupt, and we are slaves to the rich?

    Only the people who, deep in their gut, feel that there is more to this life than what we are being fed, may ultimately decide to research all the aspects of what he proclaims. Some of these people may find the truth for themselves. Some may decide to return to their comfort zone, because public scrutiny of a non-conformist idea is normally painful for the advocate thereof.

    In short, it needs guts to stand up for what you believe in, if 99% of the world disagrees. And guts he's got plenty.
    ~Anything or anyone who does not bring you alive, is too small for you~ Carina
    ~The moment you think you know it all, is the moment you know nothing~ Carina
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    Mike C (26-Nov-12)

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    Site Caretaker Dave A's Avatar
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    How familiar are you with the freeman on the land concept?

    If you think you've got a solid handle on it - please tell me:
    In a society where everyone is a freeman on the land, where do roads come from?
    The trouble with opportunity is it normally comes dressed up as work.

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    Silver Member Darkangelyaya's Avatar
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    The Wiki article is linked below; I had no concept of it before reading it in Michael's signature.
    I shall go forth, not multiply, and investigate, and report back, oh fearless leader.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freemen_on_the_land
    ~Anything or anyone who does not bring you alive, is too small for you~ Carina
    ~The moment you think you know it all, is the moment you know nothing~ Carina
    twitter: @DarkAngelYaya - Blogger: The Common Garden Variety Goddess - darkangelcarina@gmail.com

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  8. Thanks given for this post:

    Dave A (26-Nov-12)

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    Diamond Member tec0's Avatar
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    Inevitably it is a reality that government can claim any land, structure or natural resource. It is there right to do so legally and without justification. They can take the roads if they want to and it is clear that they don’t care much for public protest.

    The reality is this, e-tolling will happen. Now I don’t want it to happen because it will just add more strain on me financially. Anything transport orientated for example car licence, driver’s licence and we can also add income tax already pay for the roads. It did so in the past and will do so for the future.

    It fact that we pay more tax then most people considering we are a third world country this is alarming. Not to mention we have heavy import tax and yet we are charged with job creation and the development of both the commercial and industrial sectors.

    It is also fact that our government must provide for our safety and healthcare. Was safety provided for with the illegal strikes? Considering the poor state of our hospitals can we say it is provided for? What about municipal services, we actually do pay extra for those and is the upkeep to satisfactory?

    When the e-toll system get forced on us it will limit our ability as free people to travel the country. Considering the poor reputation of our local municipal services, who is to say that the money generated will be used correctly?

    Fact is the poor will be alienated and that our beloved taxis isn’t safe nor the answer to public transport. See the local accident reports for details. In the end I fear that it will be too expensive to live in this country. This is already a reality today; now imagine the chaos of tomorrow.

    More violent strikes, more death... Job losses... Poor investment Opportunities... Money goes out of the country because it is cheaper to buy goods then to fabricate them due to tax laws... It is like a snake eating itself...
    peace is a state of mind
    Disclaimer: everything written by me can be considered as fictional.

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    Site Caretaker Dave A's Avatar
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    I actually hadn't read the wikipedia page. It's relatively light compared to this one which goes into more depth.

    What I really liked on the wikipedia page was this bit of recent news:

    Dennis Larry Meads of Edmonton, Alberta, Canada, stormed out of a Court of Queen's Bench hearing on June 8, 2012, related to his divorce and matrimonial property case. In response, Associate Chief Justice John D. Rooke wrote a 185-page judgment rejecting what he called "Organized Pseudolegal Commercial Arguments" (OPCA), specifically, in this case, Meads' Freeman on the Land claims, arguments and documents, saying that:

    "The bluntly idiotic substance of Mr. Mead’s argument explains the unnecessarily complicated manner in which it was presented. OPCA arguments are never sold to their customers as simple ideas, but instead are byzantine schemes which more closely resemble the plot of a dark fantasy novel than anything else. Latin maxims and powerful sounding language are often used. Documents are often ornamented with many strange marking and seals. Litigants engage in peculiar, ritual‑like in court conduct. All these features appear necessary for gurus to market OPCA schemes to their often desperate, ill‑informed, mentally disturbed, or legally abusive customers. This is crucial to understand the non-substance of any OPCA concept or strategy. The story and process of a OPCA scheme is not intended to impress or convince the Courts, but rather to impress the guru’s customer."
    "Organized Pseudolegal Commercial Arguments" (OPCA) - about time this sort of complex obfuscation strategy was given an acronym

    What really struck me though is the absurdity of a freeman on the land objecting to toll roads.

    No government.
    No rates and taxes.
    No management committees.
    Everyone operating entirely on their own in an individual capacity and recognising no collective's authority.

    By my reckoning, in a society living by freeman on the land rules, tolling is the only viable way you'd ever get a proper road in place at all.
    The trouble with opportunity is it normally comes dressed up as work.

  11. #9
    Diamond Member tec0's Avatar
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    Here we go,

    November 26 2012 at 04:37am

    Comment on this story
    IOL pic nov26 etoll case

    Independent Newspapers

    Arguments over the implementation of e-tolling are expected to be heard in the Pretoria High Court on Monday.

    Johannesburg - Arguments over the implementation of e-tolling are expected to be heard in the Pretoria High Court on Monday.

    Opposition to Urban Tolling Alliance (Outa) chairperson Wayne Duvenhage said they will be arguing why e-tolling should not be implemented, while the South African National Roads Agency on the other side would be pushing for the system's implementation.

    E-tolling was scheduled to start on 30 April this year, but a court interdict by the High Court delayed the process just two days before it was scheduled to begin.

    The court ruled that a full review needed to be carried out before electronic tolling of Gauteng's highways could be put into effect.

    When delivering judgement regarding the interdict at the time, Judge Bill Prinsloo said people were held captive by toll roads.

    Under the project, motorists would pay over 35 cents per kilometre to travel on some of Gauteng's major roads. - Sapa

    Source
    I wonder if large suppliers will open more branches locally to aid there customers
    peace is a state of mind
    Disclaimer: everything written by me can be considered as fictional.

  12. #10
    Diamond Member tec0's Avatar
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    I just figured, it doesn't really matter what the cost and revenue is... It is still coming out of our pockets

    E-toll costing ‘unreliable’

    The Opposition to Urban Tolling Alliance (Outa) and the other applicants in the e-tolling court case argued yesterday that the South African Roads Agency Limited’s (Sanral) version of the costs of e-tolling was unreliable and must be rejected.
    n their heads of arguments the applicants argue that based on their calculations, the overall revenues to be garnered from the public over a period of 20 years will be R102.7548bn.

    Sanral’s version in the supplementary answering affidavit indicates that the revenue will be R71.39574bn.

    “We submit that the taking of such an amount of revenue from Gauteng’s road users will be grossly disproportionate – indeed extortionate – in view of the fact that capital and maintenance costs over 24 years will be approximately R30bn,” the applicants state in their heads of argument.

    In the document the applicants argue that Sanral’s account of what the cost of tolling would be has constantly changed and is thus “inherently unreliable”.

    They state that the first version was that the cost of collection of the toll as determined by the applicants from the Gauteng Freeway Improvement Project (GFIP) Steering Committee Report of R20.562bn was correct but based on 60% non-compliance.

    “Sanral’s second version appeared in the Constitutional Court proceedings and was to the effect that the scheme would yield a revenue over 24 years of R89.721bn and that the cost of collection would be R18bn with an average of 8.9% non-compliance over 20 years.

    Sanral’s third version involved a drop in interest on account of an alleged R17.2bn mistake in the calculation of interest,” the applicants state.


    The fourth version then brought the revenue over 20 years down to R71.39bn.

    “We respectfully submit that the arbitrary change in figures and the presentation of later versions which contradict earlier versions reveal that Sanral cannot be relied upon to give the true cost,” the applicants state.

    The refusal by Sanral to reveal the contents of the ETC contract (the company that won the tender to collect the tolls) is also highlighted by the applicants.

    “In short, Sanral have made it impossible for the applicants, the Honourable Court, or the public to calculate the true cost of tolling that will be borne by the public and by corollary the true amount of revenues that will be garnered by Sanral in the scheme,” the applicants state.

    In court yesterday advocate Mike Maritz SC, for the applicants, argued that the revenues that will be garnered will be based, in the opinion of the applicants, on an unlawful declaration of the roads as toll roads.

    “Sanral will exact payment from the public of R71bn based on unlawful administrative action,” he said.

    The court will reconvene this morning at 9.30am.

    Source
    peace is a state of mind
    Disclaimer: everything written by me can be considered as fictional.

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