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Thread: Does a stove need to be on an earth leakage?

  1. #21
    Diamond Member AndyD's Avatar
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    That's pretty much the way we label as well. We number each circuit breaker and we provide a card in the door of the DB which states the current and curve of the breaker and exactly what each one is protecting. We keep a pdf copy of every legend card we make so we can easily provide a replacement if the original grows legs. Also we label the individual sockets, isolators and light switches with the number of the circuit breaker that supplies them.

    The worst labeling I come across is usually in domestic premises, there seems to be a trend of just calling each circuit breaker either 'plugs' or 'lights' which isn't much use when there's numerous socket and light circuits. Also the adhesive labels should be outlawed, they always come adrift over time. All labeling should be traffolyte in my opinion.
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    The requirements for labelling are quite clear in the regs, each circuit should be identified but it really depends on the effort & care that the installer is prepared to put in. Most of the time I see those stickers you get on sheets that just say "Plugs" "Lights" as you say but I agree indexing them to circuit descriptions, a sheet in the back of the db cover is a good idea, or even printed longer labels on the cover. For other labelling I use a Brother printer, it produces a durable label, perhaps in commercial installations when one has the means and the time to engrave labels, that would preferable.

    What I do see often is the popular bad habit is gluing cut plastic sheet to cover gaps between circuit breakers, that definitely does not stand the test of time and falls of in a few years.

    "Best Practices" ... seems lacking in the industry. And lets no go to what one sees in ceilings

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    Diamond Member Justloadit's Avatar
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    Nice way Andy.

    My current house has no door, but a crappy cover over the circuit breakers. The 2 screws holding the cover have stripped the thread from the DB side, so everything stands scew and at an angle. Over the years I have labelled a few of the circuit breakers, such as the geysers, out buildings and pool pump. Fortunately it is in the garage, so no one sees it. But darn what a crappy way of doing things.
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    Just a note, a brand new stove plate out the box can trip an earth due to moisture. Stoves connected to earth leakage units are an expensive waste of time. Make sure earth is up to standard and you can go home and sleep without worrying.

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    Having light circuits on earth leakage is another silly idea. Earth leakage trips, now you have to try find a torch or phone etc. The new south Africa load shedding has resolved this issue to an extent. How ever introduced a new pile of problems generator connections, inverters and solar power.

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    Diamond Member AndyD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kosmonooit View Post
    ........What I do see often is the popular bad habit is gluing cut plastic sheet to cover gaps between circuit breakers, that definitely does not stand the test of time and falls of in a few years.

    "Best Practices" ... seems lacking in the industry. And lets no go to what one sees in ceilings
    I don't think it's possible to compensate for shoddy workmanship with legislation. You can make as many rules and regs as you like, if a tradesman has no care and pride in their work you're always going to end up with a shoddy job outcome.

    Quote Originally Posted by Justloadit View Post
    Nice way Andy.

    My current house has no door, but a crappy cover over the circuit breakers. The 2 screws holding the cover have stripped the thread from the DB side, so everything stands scew and at an angle. Over the years I have labelled a few of the circuit breakers, such as the geysers, out buildings and pool pump. Fortunately it is in the garage, so no one sees it. But darn what a crappy way of doing things.
    Some labels is always better than no labels but it should have been fully labelled when it was installed and also if the property has ever changed hands the labelling would need to be complete for the CoC to be issued.

    Domestic DB's are notorious for stripped screws, they just have about two turns of thread in a piece of 0.9mm plate. We usually use a clinchnut tool (sometimes called rivnut) to put proper thread inserts in, it looks a bit like a pop riveter and it inserts a proper threaded bush that will never strip. You get a nice small portable version like this which will work up to an 8mm thread and it won't break the bank. We have also use a fancy hydraulic one in the workshop that can insert up to 12mm threads.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Quote Originally Posted by ians View Post
    Having light circuits on earth leakage is another silly idea. Earth leakage trips, now you have to try find a torch or phone etc. The new south Africa load shedding has resolved this issue to an extent. How ever introduced a new pile of problems generator connections, inverters and solar power.
    I think if a light circuit is on an RCBO it will only trip if there's a good and proper leakage fault on that actual circuit in which case it's a good thing to have it trip even if it is an inconvenience. You're right though if there's a single upfront earth leakage breaker for the entire installation it is a right royal pain if there's a tripping problem somewhere else that's causing the lights to go off as well.
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    Diamond Member Justloadit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ians View Post
    Having light circuits on earth leakage is another silly idea. Earth leakage trips, now you have to try find a torch or phone etc.
    One concern I have about the lights not being on a ELB, is when the glass part of an E28 screw globe comes unstuck from the base, and when you turn breaks off. Now one needs to get a long nose pliers to dig and catch the metal base to unscrew. I am always concerned that the wall switch, actually switches off the Live circuit. When this happens I do switch off the main switch for safety, but what about other people? I suppose with the new LED and CFL versions this may not happen.
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    Diamond Member AndyD's Avatar
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    I think lighting, especially in domestic installations should be considered high shock risk. Light fittings are often replaced as fashion accessories by DIY'ers so poor terminations and missing CPC's are likely as well as DIY relocations where the entire fitting gets moved and the cabling extended. Light fittings have notoriously poor cable strain relief and it's not uncommon to see the screw in lamp holders connected the wrong way around where the body of the lamp cap (threaded part) is live and the center pin is neutral. Also as Justloadit says many people rely on the single pole light switch for safe isolation....which it isn't. There's numerous other reasons I'd consider them high risk including the fact that many cheaper electrical testers can't give a reliable voltage reading if the circuit is live and supplied by a dimmer.
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    When the lamp breaks, you shouldnt be messing with a long nose pliers in it unless you have isolated the system.

    We cant start fitting earth units to everything because people negligent. Then we might as well enforce a law that machine in factories should all be on earth leakage.

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    This why it is so important that a real electrician carries out the work and a qualified tester does the testing properly.

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