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Thread: CAN* SOUTH AFRICA*SURVIVE GIVEN THE FOLLOWING?

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    Angry CAN* SOUTH AFRICA*SURVIVE GIVEN THE FOLLOWING?

    I recevied this via email today and thought it would be nice to share:


    CAN* SOUTH AFRICA*SURVIVE GIVEN THE FOLLOWING?

    The folks who are getting free stuff, don't like the folks who are paying for the free stuff, because the folks who are paying for the free stuff can no longer afford to pay for both the free stuff and their own stuff.
    The folks who are paying for the free stuff want the free stuff to stop, and the folks who are getting the free stuff want even more free stuff on top of the free stuff they are already getting!
    Now...* The people who are forcing the people to pay for the free stuff have told the people who are RECEIVING the free stuff, that the people who are PAYING for the free stuff, are being mean, prejudiced, and racist.
    So...* The people who are GETTING the free stuff have been convinced they need to hate the people who are paying for the free stuff by the people who are forcing some people to pay for their free stuff, and giving them the free stuff in the first place.
    We have let the free stuff giving go on for so long that there are now more people getting free stuff than paying for the free stuff.
    Now understand this: all great democracies have committed financial suicide somewhere between 200 and 250 years after being founded.* The reason?* The voters figured out they could vote themselves money from the treasury by electing people who promised to give them money from the treasury in exchange for electing them.* Thomas Jefferson said it best:* “Democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not”.
    The number of people now getting free stuff outnumbers the people paying for the free stuff.* We have one chance to change that at the next election will we? *


    A Nation of Sheep Breeds a Government of Wolves!
    I'M 100% for PASSING THIS ON!!!
    Let's take a stand!!!
    Zuma:**** Gone!*
    Schooling: A decent pass rate not a manufactured one!
    Culture:* Western Standards not 40 wives cared for by the tax payers!*

    Corruption Free; No one with a criminal record has a position in Government!*

    We the people are coming…

    "The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money."* -- Margaret Thatcher*
    ---There is no traffic at the extra mile---

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    Butch Hannan (09-Oct-12)

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    In the UK you could be working a standard job 9 -5 and the family next door could basically be having the same life yet never have worked a day in there lives. This is common in Europe, Oz and NZ. Sure, we have a huge amount but collecting relatively small amounts AND is generally goes to pensioners and for kids. So it doesn't really bother me. The huge salaries of government workers on the other hand...

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    AndyD (05-Sep-12)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pap_sak View Post
    In the UK you could be working a standard job 9 -5 and the family next door could basically be having the same life yet never have worked a day in there lives. This is common in Europe, Oz and NZ. Sure, we have a huge amount but collecting relatively small amounts AND is generally goes to pensioners and for kids. So it doesn't really bother me. The huge salaries of government workers on the other hand...
    Well 14 million people at R1040pm you can dothe math but it's not a small amount, then considering 8 million tax payers and 50 million population that puts it into perspective so whenyou look at it as a percentage it's nowhere near europe, Aus or New Zeland. Then take into consideration that in europe people would pay
    like 25% tax but that imcludes pension, nhi and etc while here you get people paying 40% tax and then still paying or med aid and retirement, you can never compare that Africa and Europe in that way
    ---There is no traffic at the extra mile---

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    Correction; 4.7 million tax payers. There may be 8 million submitting returns, but the balance will be below the tax threshold. Of the 4.7 mil there may be a small number who actually pay a substantial amount (those who receive pay slips in the corporate world and can do nothing about it).
    Excellence is not a skill; its an attitude...

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    I think personal income tax roughly accounts for about 25% - vat another 25% and company tax and other duties the other 50% Very roughly. So some pay more than others - that's par for the course - but EVERYONE pays some sort of tax, vat or customs, or duties.

    I certain would prefer giving small amounts of cash to pensioners and the destitute than bailing out banks and giving to the professional lazy as the do in many other countries.

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    Will take a while for the country to get to insolvency point with the ability of the gov't to stop borrowing. Might be a decade or more. At which point you will revisit the wonderful experiences of many other countries that experienced default. Capital Flight is simply done via non-investment into depreciating infrastructure and slow but sure financialization of what can be asset shorn.

    I am still wondering what happens. All countries have cohesion of some sort.

    Theoretically anything CAN happen. Perhaps language split(s) or something like in Canada with Quebecoi wanting to go their own route.

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    Diamond Member Blurock's Avatar
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    Yes, it may take 10 or even 20 years to reach insolvency, but when the writing is on the wall, you'd better address it, or else it may come even sooner.

    At the moment our current account is at a deficit, which means that we are importing more than we are exporting. We are spending more than we are producing. Some imports have to be made if the equivalent product can not be produced locally. Unfortunately other imports are a direct cause of opportunism at the cost of the local economy and local jobs.

    I have seen tenders being awarded to connected BEE candidates who do not source locally, but import cheap, low quality products from China. There is no concern for the destruction of local jobs, or for the low quality of the products supplied. To the extent that more than one minister or official has commented on BEE candidates ripping off the government. The government need to be stricter on their own procurement policy to source locally and to assist emerging entrepreneurs (not tenderpreneurs).
    Excellence is not a skill; its an attitude...

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    Import / Export is not a big deal as long as the budget is not in deficit.
    Think about it this, imports and exports is what private people for the most part consume and produce. If you like more foreign products its OK as long as you privately can afford them out of your savings or income.

    Sourcing locally is sometimes stupid. It is often times better to do international bidding and transparent auctions to limit the amount of graft and corruption available to politicians on the ground. If a product made locally wins great, if not better luck next time. You could always enforce quality controls, similar to Russia for toys with China and simply test anything before saying it can be sold or has to go back to the manufacturer and is unacceptable. The point is establishing standards.

    South Africa is held up by mining and agriculture to a degree. Agriculture is still alive somewhat but is fearful of capital investment. Mining is very fearful of capital investment. Energy if you count coal/oil/gas simply doesn't make sense from private investment because of constant nationalization fears.

    Insolvency can be gotten to sooner if mining sector stops producing for a while say three-six months or so, then you get to insolvency fairly quickly perhaps in 3 to 5 years. Assuming bailouts and funding and exorbitant rates and reserve depletion etc...

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    This nation cannot and will not survive unless there are some very fundamental changes to its emotional intelligence.

    Right now: -
    1. it is obsessed with a transformational model that is racist, absurd and immoral (AA and BEE);
    2. for being an EXACT reverse image of the apartheid model;
    3. inducing the inarticulate notion, eating away like a cancer in the national psyche, that "Black good, White bad, Coloured/Indian/Chines not too good/bad".
    4. whilst the real imperatives of the realm are NOT being addressed', i.e, pandemic social injustice;
    5. with the other preoccupation of a predatory/rapacious culture, of a new connected elite, feeding itself with growing impetus;
    6. aggravating, NOT alleviating, the grotesque disparities inherited from apartheid;
    7. complemented by new found naive concepts of "economic freedom" that are mouthed as silly but dangerous slogans, having very little bearing on reality;
    8. further complemented by an even more dangerous complete lack of understanding of the imperatives of a constitutional democracy.

    In short, the ship of state has been sailing in the wrong direction, towards treacherous waters, for some time now, led and staffed by a crew that are the quitessential examples of the Peter Principle.

    It is going to founder on the rocks of incompetence and ignorant arrogance and arrogant ignorance ---- because no one even starts to see, let alone understand that --
    IT HAS TO BE ABOUT SOCIAL JUSTICE -- EVERYTHING ELSE IS IRRELEVANT.!!!!!
    Let us have the conversation!
    Blog: http://coginito.blogspot.com Cognito ergo sum

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    Blurock (16-Sep-12), Dave A (17-Sep-12)

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    Social justice, that's it. If you work with people in this position everyday like the miners from Marikana, you will find that the average lower and some middle class black workers are tired of the injustice applied to them by the government, who they have put it power. The majority are realising that they have been taken for a ride, like the Nats did in the past with the white minority. So, the wheel turns. How can any so-called executive of a mining company earn on average the same salary as the 100's of guys that is doing the intensive labour, actually producing the product. South Africa's renumeration scales are heavily scewed. Sure, intelligence is needed to produce the product, but the labour plays an EQUAL part. So, I back the Marikana workers on this. There are to many lazy people out there feeding on the illiterate.

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    ChrisNG53 (16-Sep-12)

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