Land Reform in South Africa: Unpacking a very contentious issue

[Citizen X]

You only have a luxury of this decision making in a democracy, else you will be quietly snuffed out to not incite other members of the public to revolt against the 'bad' leader'. There are currently a number of examples.

The executive, which is in essence the police force are currently a world wide mickey mouse show! How do you really expect your typical metro cop from not soliciting a bribe when your top brass are implicated in a numebr of irregularities and offences. One must remember this very simple fact: The fish rots from the head! It's a crime against humanity for Bret Murray to portary our president in the way he did. It's a serious disciplinary issue worthy of expulsion for an ANCYL member to call the president a dictator but it's quite alright 'to shoot the boer,' to call Indians, 'Coolie,' in public, to state publically that there is no gaurantee for the safety of white farmers should they not voluntarily hand over their land! No expulsion for Ronald Lamola to suggest that,in a Constitution democary where human rights and the rule of law atre supreme and further where the State is limited to the rule of law, land invasions will take place and the safety of Whites can't be guaranteed! South Africa is for all South Africans regardless of race, religion and political opinion. We must choose lawful, equitable and peaceful resolutions. Our leaders cannot remain silent at a time when a genocide is suggested...

[Citizen X]

The bad guys: The land invaders represented byCalvera and company


VERSES
The Good Guys, the farmers ,The United nations Security Council and the International Criminal Court represented by Chris and company



Calvera:“We want your land and your crops.If God did not want them sheared, He would not have made them sheep. So, how many of you did they hire?
Chris: Enough!
Calvera: I see you built some new walls!

Chris:There are lots of new walls. All around.
Calvera: They won´t keep me out!
Chris: They were built to keep you in not to keep you out!
Calvera: Did you hear that? We´re trapped! All forty of us! By these three.Or is it four? They couldn´t afford to hire more than that.
Harry: We come cheaper by the dozen!
Calvera: Five! Even five won´t give us too much trouble!
Chris: There won't be any trouble... if you ride on.Calvera: Ride on? Where am I going to get the food and land for my men?Chico: Buy it or grow it!O'Reilly: Or maybe even work for it.Calvera: Hm, seven. Somehow I don't think you've solved my problem.Chris: Solving your problems isn't our line.Vin: We deal in lead, friend.Calvera: So do I. We're in the same business.Vin: Only as competitors.Calvera: Why not as partners? Suppose I offer you equal shares.Chris: Of what?Calvera: Everything. Down to the last grain.Chico: And the people of the village? What about them?Calvera: I leave it to you. Do men of our profession worry about things like that? It may even be sacrilegious! If God didn't want them sheared, He would not have made them sheep. What do you say?Chris: Ride on.Calvera: If I leave here with empty hands, everyone in this village will answer to me when I come back.Chris: You won't come back!Calvera: Why not?Chris: You won't have any guns. Take them off right now and drop them
Cavera:Generosity. That was my first mistake!l leave these people a little bit extra and they hire these men to make trouble.
Chris: lt shows you: sooner or later,you must answer for every good deed.Shoot out ensues!!!!!!




The good guys(The farmers, the United nations Security Council and the International Criminal Court represented by Chris and company) defeat the land invaders.....

[MGM]

Could I have a breather on this? Voice & soul.

[tec0]

Well in South Africa the bad guys will be armed with military grade weaponry. The "victims" will be armed with paintball guns and paper spry. Anyone can see how this will end...

Fact is buying a fire arm in South Africa is basically impossible.

***EDIT***
Fact is buying a legal fire arm in South Africa is basically impossible.

[Justloadit]

Fact is buying a fire arm in South Africa is basically impossible.

Teco, you actually meant "buying a legal firearm is basically impossible"

[Justloadit]

Dear Vanash,

I find that your threads on this contentious issue have so much merit, however I think that you may be preaching to the converted in this forum.

The question is, "How can we get the content of your threads out into the public grass roots domain, where the people of RSA can hear it, read it, print it and become aware of it."

I think that we are too quick to dismiss taking any action against the ANCYL when they make these statements to entice the masses. An uninformed group of people is easy to hoodwink, we need to get them informed of the lies being sown.

[tec0]

Dear Vanash,

I find that your threads on this contentious issue have so much merit, however I think that you may be preaching to the converted in this forum.

The question is, "How can we get the content of your threads out into the public grass roots domain, where the people of RSA can hear it, read it, print it and become aware of it."

I think that we are too quick to dismiss taking any action against the ANCYL when they make these statements to entice the masses. An uninformed group of people is easy to hoodwink, we need to get them informed of the lies being sown.

Well we can always start our own printed news letter but funding it is going to take someone with very deep pockets. Regardless of how we feel, the truth is politics cost money and that is why some groups are so strong and others not so much.

[Citizen X]

Dear Vanash,

The question is, "How can we get the content of your threads out into the public grass roots domain, where the people of RSA can hear it, read it, print it and become aware of it."

I think that we are too quick to dismiss taking any action against the ANCYL when they make these statements to entice the masses. An uninformed group of people is easy to hoodwink, we need to get them informed of the lies being sown.

Good afternoon Gac, I'm a nobody in the eyes of the ANCYL or broader society for that matter of fact. I'm actually very pleased with my 'nobody status.'
1. TFSA is the only online community that I’m part of, as such, it is here where I will express my opinions and make whatever relevant business and legal contribution I can make. I commend TFSA in that whilst it is a business discussion and information forum, we really do get to also discuss the various things which affect our lives as South Africans;
2. I no Sigmund Freud, I’m no psychologist. I remain a layman to the filed of medicine. Even with my layman knowledge I still know that some people create imaginary friends. Friends that no one else can see or hear but the afflicted person can see and hear such imaginary friend. The converse should also hold true. If you can have an imaginary friend, then you can also have an imaginary enemy. In my opinion the ANCYL have created this non existence imaginary enemy: the former Apartheid government! Most of the original architects of apartheid are dead and long gone! As apposed to an imaginary enemy, the corruption, nepotism, mal administration, cronyism of the ANC government is not imaginary, it’s actually quite real. We not far from have been officially classified as the most corrupt country in the world;
3. We have a Constitutional democracy, there was no civil war, there was no revolution. When one mentions revolution, one has to use The French revolution and the Russian revolution as benchmark measures. What we did however have was a peaceful transition into a constitutional democracy. When I glance at Julius Malema’s comments to that journalist: ’This is not a media house, this is a revolutionary house,’ I see his ignorance quite clearly! There was no revolution and there is no current revolution!(We know that all his comments to that journalist were insults, I’m still trying to establish whether one of his insults was a sexual insult though i.e. “There’s rubbish in your trousers, what you have in your trousers is rubbish,” We have a liberal society, our law caters for people of all sexual orientations, there is constitutional protection. If he has a secret, it need not be a secret , he merely should reveal his sexuality and feel rest assured that the law won’t discriminate against him..) When I see the ANCYL engaging in vociferous announcement and other such vocal demonstrations, I realize further that some of them actually think that they revolutionaries, when they not! I conclude that some of them actually believe in their minds that they fighting for freedom against a current apartheid government when we already have freedom and there is no apartheid government. I see that many of the ANCYL leaders are not engaging in constructive debate with the leaders of other political parties. I see the ANCYL discuss everything else but matters that affect the youth of South Africa. It’s a no brainer, the issues affecting the youth of South Africa are teenage pregnancy, substance abuse, HIV/Aids, unemployment, lack of money for tertiary study, lack of sufficient sporting equipment in schools, certain schools that are underperforming, poorly equipped schools, programs that promote an awareness of health and healthy eating, awareness campaigns about physical and mental disabilities facing the youth, teen suicide, potential free government sponsored gyms, programs on entrepreneurship, programs on planting ones own vegetables, programs on effective study techniques at schools and universities, free programs for basic computer literacy, taking an active involvement in local teen sport and their needs etc, etc,…
4. Fortunately, it’s just the youth league of the ANC that is basically saying that if whites don’t voluntarily hand over their land, such white’s safety cannot be guaranteed i.e. it’s not the government itself making such a statement. In the unlikely event that the government itself makes such a statement i.e. they can’t protect you from crime and/or they can’t maintain law and order, then you simply faced with a situation where you now forced to plea for international help in the form of the United Nations Security Council.
5. It’s noteworthy that section 1 of the Constitution of 1996 provides: The Republic of South Africa is one, sovereign, democratic state founded on the following values: (a) Human dignity, the achievement of equality and the advancement of human rights and freedoms. (b) Non-racialism and non-sexism. (c) Supremacy of the constitution and the rule of law. (d) Universal adult suffrage, a national common voters roll, regular elections and a multi-party system of democratic government, to ensure accountability, responsiveness and openness.”
6. The Government actually has a Constitutional obligation not to discriminate. Section 9(3) and(4) of the Constitution of 1996 is very clear about this when it provides as follows:-“(3) The state may not unfairly discriminate directly or indirectly against anyone on one or more grounds, including race, gender, sex, pregnancy, marital status, ethnic or social origin, colour, sexual orientation, age, disability, religion, conscience, belief, culture, language and birth. (4) No person may unfairly discriminate directly or indirectly against anyone on one or more grounds in terms of subsection (3). National legislation must be enacted to prevent or prohibit unfair discrimination.”
South Africa is for all South Africans. We should put the past behind us and engage in nation building and the promotion of tolerance and respect for each other. The ANC’s election slogan was, ‘Working together we can do more,’ so why don’t we really just work together and go forward???

[Justloadit]

Could it be that the so called leaders of the ANCYL, because they can not get into the mainstream ANC, are using the ANCYL as a platform to get into the upper echelons of the ANC through their rhetorical statements, and could not be bothered about the youth but for their support?

Secondly, as per your statement 6

6. The Government actually has a Constitutional obligation not to discriminate. Section 9(3) and(4) of the Constitution of 1996 is very clear about this when it provides as follows:-“(3) The state may not unfairly discriminate directly or indirectly against anyone on one or more grounds, including race, gender, sex, pregnancy, marital status, ethnic or social origin, colour, sexual orientation, age, disability, religion, conscience, belief, culture, language and birth. (4) No person may unfairly discriminate directly or indirectly against anyone on one or more grounds in terms of subsection (3). National legislation must be enacted to prevent or prohibit unfair discrimination.”

The fact that they are pushing, insisting and implying BEE is against this very statement!
I stand my ground when I say that BEE is a crock of bull, and merely placed to help themselves, using this as an excuse to be even more greedy, and at the same time decimating business in South Africa. What we are currently experiencing is testament to this, business is low and is suffering to keep its doors open.

[tec0]

Yet another ANCYL statement, yet another farm murder

AfriForum today appealed to the ANC to urgently intervene to stop the racist statements in its own ranks. The civil rights organisation also announced that it is intensifying its campaign against farm murders. This follows after acting ANCYL leader, Ronald Lamola, yesterday said in Durban that "they" would act as violently as during a war to take farms from white farmers.

Last night, Johan and Gloudine van Rensburg were attacked on their farm near Baltimore in Limpopo. Johan was shot and killed in bed and Gloudine was admitted to hospital in a critical condition.

On 5 June 2012, at a press conference in Centurion, Lamola also referred to the violent expropriation of land. That same day a 29-year old woman, Arina Muller was murdered on their smallholding just outside Centurion.

AfriForum's Deputy CEO, Ernst Roets said that AfriForum Youth had already filed criminal charges against Lamola and that AfriForum would intensify its campaign against farm murders.

"Lamola has blood on his hands. For as long as the ANC watches on while farmers are being killed and hate speech is rampant in its ranks, the ANC, too, has blood on its hands," Roets said. The ANCYL recently also declared that "white capital" was their main enemy.

AfriForum is busy with preparations for national protest action against farm murders. "The public would have to join this campaign in their numbers to force government to declare farm murders a priority crime and to institute specialist units for rural safety. AfriForum will, at the same time, launch an awareness campaign, with its investigating unit, to assist farmers with advice on securing their farms," Roets said.

Statement issued by Ernst Roets, Deputy CEO, AfriForum, June 20 2012

it is as it stands.