Consumer Protection Act VS Video Games.

[Dave A]

Prevention systems for what, I have a right to free speech, I can call Malema a twat using whatever medium I choose, if he doesn't like it then he is free to take me to court. The law cannot force me not to call Malema a twat, it's it is my right to do so.

And responsibility to take the consequences thereof...

Freedom of speech is not an entirely unfettered right.

[tec0]

There is a difference between wanting and needing. I don’t want teenagers to commit suicide because someone decided to slander her/his name. I don’t want games to download crap from the net but by their design I have no option. I want the option. Is it stupid or wrong for me to want the option?

Secondly for some reason once some applications "that is standard with some smart phones" can't be turned on nor off at will you actually have to delete the application. Some phones like mine for example just keep on asking for updates every time I used it. There was just no end to the constant interruptions. Here I made the choice to bin the smart phone and I got myself something outdated.

Fact is our PowerStation's will soon run on systems that we effectively can never own because of licensing updates and the like. Now if you can't see the dangers and limitations connected to this infrastructure then it is by choice. I am not going to bicker about it, this type of outsourcing was forced there was no choice here… And that is the problem.

We are not being protected, our jobs/training are being taken away and strangely this is ok
Our children gets victimized and it is our fault ? One cannot protect them if you don't have the means...
If we stop supporting our gaming, PC and play station markets how many jobs will be lost?

Everything has a cause and an effect. Now is the effect beneficial or harmful?

Your choice...

[Blurock]

tecO does have a point as the CPA has a clause regarding DISCLOSURE. If you buy a game or any product for that matter, not disclosing what more is required and the full cost of operating the product, there is good cause for a complaint against the seller/distributor.

Why don't you lodge a complaint to the commissioner tecO?

[tec0]

Actually I got my money back once or twice now but as more and more games become internet dependant it is a losing battle and the reason why I started this thread. It is not enough to complain anymore or get your money back.

The laws must change, only then can our freedom be restored. We must demand that updates and internet connection must remain an alternative. Game registration I do understand because they need to protect their product. But these heavy constant downloads must stop because the cost is simply too high.

Also licensing must be looked at especially with industrial software. You cannot expect a country to hand over a important function to some other country and just pay them all the time till we can't afford it anymore. Their needs to be some kind of protection and mandatory training program to help with securing a viable function.

Smart phone applications need to give us information before hand for example how big a download is how long it will take and thus one can calculate cost accordingly to take appropriate action. Also you need to know if the license is a once off cost or will one spend money annually.

Truth is we are demanding basic stuff so how would we go about it?

[adrianh]

@tec0 - as I said before - of course nobody wants teenagers to commit suicide because of slander but the fact of the matter is that slandering people has been around since people have been around. How do you think rumours went around before IT. I am pretty sure that the game would tell you within its requirements whether it needs to be connected to the net before you purchase it.

You see, with regards to rthe smartphone, you chose with your wallet - other people choose to be happy with periodic updates - it was not mandated by government.

Nobody forces us to do anything - 20million people bought Ipads because they wanted to. We choose with our wallets - the fact that we are all to doff to realize that we are living in consumption driven consumerist world powered by marketing is our collective stupidity and downfall. I choose not to buy into consumerism. I am satisfied with my crappy car and my crappy jeans and not having DSTV. I am satisfied with growing my own vegetables and not buying from Woolworths - it is my choice.

We are not babies, what protection do we need with regards to jobs and training - we can choose to study (many people get degrees and diplomas, we can choose to attend courses or go to the library and educate ourselves, we can choose to learn a skill. No, the world owes us nothing, we need to get off our butts and take responsibility for ourselves. The government is not responsible for giving people jobs or forcing their employers to give them training, its up to us to think and do for ourselves.

If we stop supporting our gaming, PC and play station markets how many jobs will be lost?

So tell me, what happened to the people at Kodak when we all switched to digital cameras what happened to Olivetti when we switched from typewriter to PC's, what happened to the people who made drawing boards when we all switched to CAD. Technology moves on. I honestly couldn't give a toss about the jobs of the people who write games, they will have to adapt or die, just like the rest of the world in any other industry.

Cause and effect, nothing is black or white. A girl loses her legs due to some or other disease that she picked up in a hospital - she goes on to become one of the worlds greatest disabled snow skiers in the world - she becomes a leader in the design of sport prosthetics and a wonderful motivational speaker...The point that I am making is that you choose the effect that that a cause has, I am happy about social networks because we get to discuss lots of things on an open forum.

@Blurock - I don't think that it is that simple -

What is the full cost of operating a new car?
What is the full cost of having insurance, ADT etc? (they send you a letter 3 times a year stating that the prices are going up - take it or leave it)
What do you do if the software vendor says that the software requires periodic updates via the internet (I bet if you emailed them and asked them for a CD they would send you one)

[adrianh]

And responsibility to take the consequences thereof...

Freedom of speech is not an entirely unfettered right.

Agreed.

[tec0]

Again this is not about government handing out jobs. This is about big companies that wants to dial in from across the world to maintain a local system remotely. Thus no training no option for training on this system exist at all. Thus you pay for licensing and they will maintain it remotely. Sure they will show your people to setup the remote system and connect the wires but the function can be enabled and disabled by someone you can't even see. Thus you have no real control.

Secondly I have a problem with the games because nearly all of them needs to be registered and maintained on the net. There is no alternative why? Because there is no law stating that they need to provide an alternative...

[adrianh]

Again this is not about government handing out jobs. This is about big companies that wants to dial in from across the world to maintain a local system remotely. Thus no training no option for training on this system exist at all. Thus you pay for licensing and they will maintain it remotely. Sure they will show your people to setup the remote system and connect the wires but the function can be enabled and disabled by someone you can't even see. Thus you have no real control.

You don't have to use the product, vote with you wallet.

Secondly I have a problem with the games because nearly all of them needs to be registered and maintained on the net. There is no alternative why? Because there is no law stating that they need to provide an alternative...

Law, what for...again, if you don't like it then don't buy the product.

[tec0]

You don't have to use the product, vote with you wallet.

research the PLC market… This particular way of doing business will be the norm very soon. And is already in use in bigger companies. It is there because there was no law to protect the companies and allow for an alternative.

If there was a law preventing forced outsourcing then I am sure people will keep their jobs and get the training they need.

Like I said in the beginning it is a bit more serious then what people give it credit for.

[irneb]

Actually in some respects there's even deeper problems ... and not just in gaming. One company which makes a program I use 90% of my work-day have this "wonderful" contract:

1.2 Upgrades and Previous Versions.
1.2.1 Effect of Upgrades. If ##### or a Reseller provides Licensee with an Upgrade to other Licensed Materials previously licensed to Licensee, the Licensed Materials previously licensed to Licensee and any other ##### Materials relating thereto will thereafter be deemed to be a “Previous Version.” Except as set forth in Section 1.2.2 (Exception for Subscription Licensees), the license grant and other rights with respect to any Previous Version will terminate one hundred twenty (120) days after Installation of the Upgrade. Within such one hundred twenty (120) day period, except as set forth in Section 1.2.2 (Exception for Subscription Licensees), (a) Licensee must cease all use of any Previous Version and Uninstall all copies of the Previous Version, and (b) upon expiration of such period, such Previous Version will no longer constitute Licensed Materials but rather will be deemed to be Excluded Materials and Licensee will no longer have a license for any such Previous Version. At ######’s request, Licensee agrees to destroy or return to ###### or the Reseller from which they were acquired all copies of the Previous Version. ####### reserves the right to require Licensee to show satisfactory proof that all copies of any Previous Version have been Uninstalled and, if so requested by ######, destroyed or returned to ###### or the Reseller from which they were acquired.
1.2.2 Exception for Subscription Licensees. The termination of rights as to Previous Versions described in Section 1.2.1 (Effect of Upgrades) may not apply to Licensee if and to the extent (a) Licensee has a Subscription and the Subscription Program Terms authorize Licensee to retain such Previous Versions or (b) otherwise authorized in writing by #####.

So once an upgrade / update is issued from the company, that is now the new licensed version. And you've got a grace period of 120 days to uninstall all older versions. The problem with this though is that some of the programs they produce do not have any ability to save a file back to previous versions (so you may not work with anyone owning an older version still). Worse, they issue these versions in near Alpha test quality, so we tend to not want an upgrade until about 2 years after the version was issued (after around the 5th Service Pack / Update to fix it into a Final Beta quality).

And even if you use the subscription "escape" clause, you pay an anual fee to get a normal sub (which doesn't apply here). If you go with the "special" sub - which allows multiple versions, you're better off just buying the stuff. And I'm not talking a few R100 rands - one license is R30 000 (for absolute basic product), going up to R120 000.

Some have "read" into that EULA that actually we're only purchasing the usage rights of the program. Which means that the company still owns the installation on your PC and in effect can tell you exactly when to do what with it. Never mind control! This is more like paying to be a slave.