business ventures

**Dave A** · 16-Jan-12, 09:02 PM

Originally Posted by Kevinb

So something does not make sense here - if you have 10 years to change then why can you not be a T/A ???

That is because these are two different issues driven by two different pieces of legislation.

The status of the cc is governed by the new Companies Act of 2008 and the regs around that.

The t/a name reservation/registration issue is governed by the Consumer Protection Act.

**wynn** · 17-Jan-12, 08:04 AM

Originally Posted by murdock

just to check that i understand this correctly...i have a registered cc which is not vat registered...and use it for consulting work...leave it as

consulting services cc

then have another part of the same registered cc T/A murdocks wood creations
and the other T/A murdocks ally creations...all under the same cc?
(call it wood creation division and ally creation division to avoid the cc t/a story if it is a fact, clear it up first)
if the cc is not vat registered...i just need to keep a set of books for each division of the cc?
( you only have to be vat registered if your turnover is higher that a certain amount, register when you reach the threshold)
the reason for the seperate bank account is because the ally creations...purchases materials...i normally just do an eft once or twice a month depending on the orders...this operation has been going for a period of time already and has grown slowly...but this year i have an opitunity to turn it around and expand...due to demand...i have chosen to keep it small...mainly because of the headache of paper work.
(then the new pty ltd should be just about ready to be formed then?? a little extra paperwork is perhaps a good thing now??)

Maybe a visit to an accountant is in order.

**BusFact** · 17-Jan-12, 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by Kevinb

... but have also got a memo to say that you can buy a shelf cc and convert it to a pty ltd within 10 years. If I do it in the next two years it is no charge. So effectively if I do buy a shelf cc I will be T/A !
So something does not make sense here - if you have 10 years to change then why can you not be a T/A ???

Maybe I'm being slow this morning but I'm not following the logic.

You can convert the cc to a PTY in the future (not sure where the 10 year dead line comes from), but it keeps its same name. Only its title changes.

The limitation is only on the name of the business.

**BusFact** · 17-Jan-12, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by Norri

The point behind the "trading as" restriction of the CPA is so that consumers always know exactly who they're dealing with. Also, if you're a sole-prop, you need to use your real name and include your ID number, if you're a CC, you need your ACTUAL CC's name and registration number and so on.

Of course, if the business name that comes after "trading as" is an actual registered entity, and it's yours, you can use it.

Check out this PDF on the topic: https://www.saica.co.za/Portals/0/Te...o%20outlaw.pdf

Thats a subtley different interpretation to previous ones I've had. I have always been under the impression that T/A names will continue, but they must now be registered with CIPC. The assumption was that there would be a separate registration process and fee for reserving a trading name that differed from the more complex resgistration of companies and trademarks.

However I suppose its a mute point as the CIPC don't seem to have any clear process for registering trading names anyway.

I'm also not sure where you find that you have 12 months to "correct it" if your trading name was in existence for over a year before this Act. My interpretation is that if this was the case you did not need to take any action and could continue to use this trading name. Its only the guys who hade been using the trading name for less than a year before the Act, that had to make a plan.

Oh well, as usual CIPC manages to sow confusion wherever its tentacles reach. I suppose it makes sense to simply create a company with a somewhat generic name so that it can be used to house various business operations. Keep it simple and only trade using your formal company name.

**Norri** · 17-Jan-12, 02:32 PM

I've just read bits and pieces here and there. As always, with these things, each article has its own interpretation of the law. It's not until there's a precedent set that we really know what's okay and what's not.

I do believe your interpretation is correct though (ito the 12 months).

**Just Gone** · 17-Jan-12, 03:48 PM

@ Bus fact - the 10 years is the deadline for all companies to convert to pty ltd. If you change over in the next two years it is free of charge. You cannot register a new cc at the mo, but you can buy a shelf cc, therefore you would buy the cc and then T/A. Thus my disagreement with norri saying you cannot be a T/A. You have to be a T/A is you buy a shelf cc you would not prob not want to use the registered name. Its the same as my wife she has a PTY LTD company she took over 7 years ago and its also a T/A !

**BusFact** · 18-Jan-12, 12:49 PM

@Kevinb - Sorry but I'm still not getting it. If you buy a cc now, then you can trade as the name of the cc, but you can't trade under any name you choose. You are now limited to only using the registered name of the business whether it is a cc or a pty.

Your wife if fine because she is playing by the old rules as she started seven years ago.

Just to make sure we are talking about the same thing here: T/A stands for "Trading As". In the past you could T/A practically any name you could come up with. It didn't matter that your registered business name was ABC cc, you could T/A "Bob's paint" or " Tom's deli" or "XYZ", etc. As long as both names were on your official documents.

Now however you can only choose one name and that is the registered name of your PTY. If you bought another PTY or a shelf company (PTY or cc) then you could trade using the name of that company, but you are limited to that specific name. No longer can you simply choose something else. You can still change the name of your company, but that is a formal process and then you must only use your new name and no longer the old one.

You can't "be" a T/A is more something that you used to be able to do (and some still can continue doing).

PS. Do you have a website? I have a colleague looking for electric fencing work done (only a small residential job).

**Just Gone** · 18-Jan-12, 06:28 PM

Ok so are you saying I can buy a shelf company, but must use that shelf company name ?? Are you saying I cannot use the shelf company cc as a .... for eg Turquise moon cc Trading as ........ Joe soap escort agency for example ??

**Dave A** · 18-Jan-12, 09:04 PM

You need to register a defensive name or reserve the trading name with CIPC before you can trade on the name.

**wynn** · 19-Jan-12, 08:31 AM

Well I am "Grinco Trading cc" and I put whatever I like behind the name.
At the Moment it is "Grinco Trading cc" Civil and Pipesystem Sales, but It could also be "Grinco Trading cc" Brick and Block Sales the cc is still the same but the discription can vary.

So if Murdock traded as "Consultant cc" and then on any letterhead order form or invoice put just that or put "Consultant cc" Wood Creations, or "Consultant cc" Ally creations, as an explanation of what they do I don't see a problem with that, I would put a product description after Ally say 'Ally Clothing Creations' or some such.

Then when you pass the threshold, or clients require a VAT invoice, register for VAT