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Thread: Certified copy of an electronic document

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    Site Caretaker Dave A's Avatar
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    Certified copy of an electronic document

    How do you produce a certified copy of an electronic document?

    I ask because in order to renew the lease on our premises I have to supply the landlord with a certified copy of the company's CM29.

    This never used to be a problem because in 2003 CIPRO used to send you a piece of paper. But the directors of the company changed last year. My auditors handled it. All the required forms were signed and CIPRO was updated.

    However, it seems the only updated CM29 received from CIPRO is an electronic document. There was no hard copy sent like in the good (or is that the bad) old days.

    Yep, times have moved on. It's a legal document.

    The landlord won't accept it. They want a certified copy of the original document.

    So how do you make a certified copy of an electronic document?
    The trouble with opportunity is it normally comes dressed up as work.

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    Gold Member daveob's Avatar
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    The number of times I have needed a certified copy of my utilities account : which I receive via e-mail.

    Printed 2 copies, off to the cop shop, here's the original, this is a copy, please certify.

    Never had a problem and walked out with a stamped certified "copy" without so much as a question !!

    Nothing illegal. They are certifying that the copy is in fact a copy of the other document. They are not certifying that the original is, in fact, an original unaltered document.

    Only in Africa.
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    Gold Member Singhms's Avatar
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    I do the same as daveob as I also receive my utilities via email

    Would love to know what is the correct procedure is!
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    Email problem KimH's Avatar
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    Dave, ask your Auditor to certify a copy for you.
    "If at first you don't succeed, do it like your mother told you."

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    Site Caretaker Dave A's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimH View Post
    Dave, ask your Auditor to certify a copy for you.
    That's exactly what's happening

    But I'm still somewhat gobsmacked at the archaic thinking behind this.

    Forwarding a copy of the original pdf file by email doesn't cut it. They want paper.

    The CM29 actually says the contents can be verified on the CIPRO website (now the CIPC website, of course).
    However the landlord says the CIPC website can't be trusted to have the latest information due to their backlog
    Despite me pointing out that the effective date of a change of directors is the day it's captured on the CIPC website.

    This is from a JSE listed company for crying out loud. How on earth can they be so... backward.

    It's irritating, but:

    Quote Originally Posted by daveob View Post
    The number of times I have needed a certified copy of my utilities account : which I receive via e-mail.

    Printed 2 copies, off to the cop shop, here's the original, this is a copy, please certify.

    Never had a problem and walked out with a stamped certified "copy" without so much as a question !!

    Nothing illegal. They are certifying that the copy is in fact a copy of the other document. They are not certifying that the original is, in fact, an original unaltered document.

    Only in Africa.
    Now that really scares me.
    The trouble with opportunity is it normally comes dressed up as work.

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    Diamond Member Justloadit's Avatar
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    A certified copy of a copy!

    Ohh you got to luv it when you start feeding sh!t to a...holes

    Probably some stupid clerk, who has no fuse wire between the ears making the request no doubt. So feed them with crap, they will not know the difference anyway.
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    Diamond Member Blurock's Avatar
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    Dave, you are experiencing this problem because its a listed company. The bigger the company, the longer the red tape. That is why our banks deliver such bad service. The junior staff just paint by numbers, they have no clue as to why they do what they are doing. Well, actually that goes for the some of the senior staff too.

    FICA is often misunderstood and I sometimes wonder what training is given in this regard. Some organisations will go to such lengths to get a completely useless piece of paper, its scary.
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    Oh Dave, I hope your landlord contact isn't breeding. What a stupid request. I don't suppose they can give you instructions on how they expect you to get the CM29 in the format they want.

    And I just love this comment from Justloadit: "Ohh you got to luv it when you start feeding sh!t to a...holes". It just sums up this situation so well ... and the FICA one too.

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    Site Caretaker Dave A's Avatar
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    I dropped off the certified copy this afternoon, and ribbed them about how they won't accept the electronic document or checking the validity of the info for themselves on the CIPC website.

    Their concern with the electronic document is it could be forged and how would you know. To some extent it is a fair concern; probably safe to say most people wouldn't know what to check to ensure it's the "real deal" and hasn't been tampered with.

    However, (particularly given the "certified copy of a printout" story above) is hardcopy really any more reliable nowadays?

    When requirements are so unreasonable that honest people need to bend the rules to get through the system, there is absolutely no chance of the system being effective against fraudsters.

    At this point FICA has become a farce. So maybe it should be scrapped altogether so we can stop wasting the vast majority of people's time.
    The trouble with opportunity is it normally comes dressed up as work.

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    Email problem mother's Avatar
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    If they REALLY wanted to check the validity of the info, they should have checked it on the website themselves. Seems completely idiotic that they would prefer a piece of paper (which you could easily have tampered with, regardless of whatever "certified" stamp is on there), instead of getting the info first hand from the horse's mouth.

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