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Thread: NEOTEL Capacity - technically speaking

  1. #11
    Gold Member irneb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JWalker View Post
    The part that was disturbing to me though was that if they are aware of this type of problem in the security industry(as the technician said its common) why dont they inform clients before it becomes an issue!
    That would mean too many customers would cancel the contract! Never mind that their new sign-ons would drop drastically. This is a 2 part issue:

    1st they load their own network to the max (in most cases exceeding its own design limits) simply to have the largest possible customer base with the least possible capital outlay. So they install "nice" systems and the 1st few guys get great service for a few months. They use this as advertising that their systems are the "best" and everyone jumps on the wagon. Then it ends with the usual bottle-neck which gives at best an 80's dial-tone modem's speed - when finally the customers complain so much that the public in general start "knowing" about the poor service. Then their customer base starts flattening out, and even starts decreasing as the contracts run their course. Only once they've squeezed every last bit out of that inferior hardware will they start looking at upgrades (and this goes for all of them, MTN, Vodacom, CellC, NeoTel, Telkom, and the rest of the wannabee's - as well as those "wireless" provides).

    2nd, as other companies also setup in the area ... the available frequency ranges start being used up. Causing things like interference to get worse. This is especially prevalent with cell tech, as the frequencies is in a much narrower band than other radio connections. With cell, there's also all kinds of handshaking swapping connections to-and-fro between towers ... thus making for lots of dips & peaks in performance. The "best" scenario for the customer is if there's ONLY one single tower in his vicinity, with WAY less than its maximum number of active connections ... all other towers should be out of his range, so it doesn't "automatically" go and switch over "just because it feels like it".

    I've got 2 anecdotal stories regarding the 2 scenarios:
    1. Our company used to be linked through Verison (actually using MTN's broad-link). The 1st year was absolutely GREAT! We couldn't find anyone else with as good speeds and up-time. Then the hassles started, with days/weeks of absolutely NO connection at all. The "funniest" explanation they gave was: "It's sun-spot activity!" ... though doing a bit of research, the actual sun-spot activity was at a 20 year low at the time they used that excuse!

    2. A friend of mine's had a Vodacom 3G data connection to his home PC for a few years now, as well as a Vodacom-phone. Last year MTN built a new tower not 100m away from his house. Since then data for him is non-existent, and he has to walk down the block to go make a phone-call. The VC-tower's only about 500m away (no obstructions whatsoever - he can see it from his front door, yet still no connection)! Worst for him is he just extended his 2 year contract before the tower got built, now he's stuck with non-existent service which he HAS to pay for even though he gets nothing out of it.
    Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves. - Norm Franz
    And central banks are the slave clearing houses

  2. #12
    Gold Member twinscythe12332's Avatar
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    I have a yearly ritual with vodacom. The signal strength dips below acceptable levels, I lodge a complaint, it mysteriously returns.

  3. #13
    Site Caretaker Dave A's Avatar
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    In feeling this one over for possible catches, there is an interesting difference between Neotel and "mobile" service providers that should make a CPA action far more likely to succeed - Neotel is providing a service to a particular address. Mobile services can argue that they can't really control the number of subscribers connecting to a tower at any given time, given them a little more wriggle room. Neotel doesn't have that excuse.

    It'll certainly be interesting to hear how your case goes, Anthony.

    The other interesting thing is how would Neotel rectify the situation - run cable or glass to your door?

  4. #14
    Platinum Member sterne.law@gmail.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave A View Post


    The other interesting thing is how would Neotel rectify the situation - run cable or glass to your door?
    Easy enough, install the antenna at their cost!!!
    Anthony Sterne

    www.acumenholdings.co.za
    DISCLAIMER The above is merely a comment in discussion form and an open public arena. It does not constitute a legal opinion or professional advice in any manner or form.

  5. #15
    Site Caretaker Dave A's Avatar
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    Yes, but I'm wondering how the antenna helps solve the problem.

    If they're using "cell breathing" where overloaded towers ignore weaker signals, yes - it solves your problem; by bumping someone else's service off the tower. To my mind that's not solving the problem - too many subscribers on the tower. Put all of them onto antenna systems and you're back to square one.

    But perhaps that isn't a CPA issue - more in the territory of ICASA

  6. #16
    Gold Member irneb's Avatar
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    Exactly! Which comes back to what I said: it's all about their profitability.

    If they've overloaded their tower, it's good for them. Their customers have bad service, but until this starts reflecting in their "bottom-line" it's not an issue they're concerned with. And "us" South Africans being so "timid" when it comes to complaining about bad service (I don't mean ranting about it, but pulling the plug on the contract) they generally have a long time (even years) of this high-profit-low-maintenance service agreement.

    Until the "general" South African starts changing their habits to become someone who "WILL NOT TAKE this S#T! EVEN FOR A SECOND!!!!" We'll see this type of service inefficiency prevailing ad-infinitum. I take my hat off to you sterne! You're one of the few who "complain" to the "correct" parties ... instead of just "at parties" . Hope this becomes a trend!
    Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves. - Norm Franz
    And central banks are the slave clearing houses

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    100% correct irneb, thats the feeling I got from my security co.

    After months of complaing and senior management refusing to speak to me or call me back (I am sure because they know the real problem) they evently installed the equipment for free but still made sure they told me that "all our other customers are paying for the equipment without complaining"

  8. #18
    Gold Member twinscythe12332's Avatar
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    irneb, I don't think it's a case of South africans being "timid" as you suggest. I'd say it's more along the lines of "what's the use?"
    with contract clauses that require you to pay the amount due for the duration of said contract... what does cancelling a contract actually help? I'd love to know a way in which to cancel a contract for poor service delivery. I think half of SA would too.
    Any ideas?

  9. #19
    Gold Member irneb's Avatar
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    Yep. There are "reasons" behind the "timidity". It's a huge schlep to go to court because of such non-delivery (not to mention the expense). But unless more do this "hard" thing, we'll never get this "normal course of business" extinct. The problem is actually that it's in nearly (if not all) sectors of the economy, just start thinking about building contractors & mechanics - and those don't necessarily have the muscle like one of these telecoms companies have, yet still you find complaints galore yet very few court cases making those fly-by-night guys make good on their side of the contracts.

    My personal "answer to the problem" is to use prevention instead of a cure. I steer clear of contracts as much as possible, even if I have to pay more for something like a pre-paid thing: I know I can stop it by simply not paying anymore, for whatever reason I have. The only contracts I'd even consider would be a monthly thing, and then you still need to check those infamous "T's & C's". IMO, if they can't blazon their terms and conditions in larger letters than the rest of the advert, there's something about it which is not "kosher"! Basically a clause of "Terms and conditions apply" anywhere in any statement from any company means: "All that's said in this entire thing is a bunch of BS. It's only meant to trick you into signing your life away for no benefit whatsoever!"

    I know it's not possible to go this route in all instances, but that's the base problem isn't it? If one person complains and even starts a court case, they might tie it up for years to make him/her become despondent and drop it. Or even if such doesn't happen, one pay-back / cancellation isn't a big worry to them. But if they find absolutely everyone doing the same whenever their service even starts dropping below the "perfection" they "promise" in their ads, they'll very quickly HAVE TO fix it or start taking losses which will blunder them into insolvency quicker than you can say ... uhm ... "T's & C's apply!"

    Alternative to this, the media should bring such things into the general public's view - in preference to stuff like Mad-Emma's backhanders (which is already such a dead horse it's starting to smell!) At least that would be negative advertising - causing their new traps (read ads) to fail, which would at least make their profit start to decline. I'd imagine something alike a "Worst-of-the-worst-list" and each time a company gets a complaint against them they move up one spot on this. But such would probably never happen as most media is governed by their customers: these exact same companies paying for the ads (if not even worse). I can't really see Special Assignment doing a piece on NeoTel's non-existent service with a NeoTel add in the middle, can you?
    Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves. - Norm Franz
    And central banks are the slave clearing houses

  10. #20
    Gold Member twinscythe12332's Avatar
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    All in all, it's hard to get a ball rolling when the weight of millions who do nothing about it are the first hurdle. In the end we can blame no one but ourselves.

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