The human face of recession.

[Frankincense]

@Dave - Educating children requires many decisions. First we must decide: "Do we want/need public schools"?

Either way - who will decide what should be taught theirin ?

Kids only learn what they are taught. My child cannot be taught evolution at school and creation at home. We cannot teach them Dinosaurs went extinct millions of years ago at school, and at home explain the beautiful stories of how Noah had baby Dino's on his Ark, or how Moses built cages out of cane to store the Sacred Ibes and would release them when pterodactyls would cause mischief upon the people when traveling to Ethiopia. It's one or the other and it's SCIENCE and they exclude one another. These are some of the further challenges we face as Satan is at work within the State Education system aswell. Your comments would be interesting.

The challenge is society will never be homogenous in faith, culture and values.

The challenges will be overcome Dave, but only by few, not by all, in a secular or tribal manner. "Generic mass State education" will never succeed in teaching the youth the truth. Even if you want to include "taking responsability & life skills". There's just to much money involved.

[tec0]

Well I don’t see it that way. Children are to be educated in what they need for jobs. That is it really. Teach a child what he or she needs to know so that he or she can be functional as grownups.

The truth... what is the truth? We are still very basic life-forms and with our still primitive minds we were still able to do amazing things. Still do we need people that can do a function and follow rules? OR do we need people that can think for themselves.

Well nature has provided us with the answer. Ants and Bees are examples of a doped or drugged labour. Everyone is functional but they are oblivious to the fact that there is life after work; basically they don’t care because they are basically drugged by the queen via pheromones and other kind of chemicals. So we know that this system is successful.

But again drugs do the same thing to a human. Once addicted there is nothing that human will not do to get his or her next fix. Now, look at education again why is it NOT working. Well incentive can be one aspect the second is just a crappy system that lacks discipline. Then there is the last aspect you must consider: People that is addicted to drugs wants to live...

So for any “secret societies” that is reading this make a note: get people to be addicted to a chemical and then make them work for that chemical and make sure that chemical makes them happy and bingo you have yourself a new world order.

[Frankincense]

Building the Right Stuff!

@tec0

Let's see:

Quote: "Well I don’t see it that way."

Indeed you do not see it as I do. You are advising "secret societies" on what to do to succeed in having humanity brainlessly following them with reference to chemicals and drugs, in order to destroy their lives with dependance producing drugs and I propose a knowledgefull, independant, free thinking, wise, healthy, obedient society.

Quote: " Still do we need people that can do a function and follow rules? OR do we need people that can think for themselves."

...You are now advised that to follow rules, you need to think for yourself. It's not an "or" issue. This would form part of your psychological development studies which you could persue when you refrain from all those drugs and mindset that you only need to know what your boss needs you to know and decide to pull yourself together

Quote: "Children are to be educated in what they need for jobs."

If all you believe your child needs to learn is how to compile a financial statement or sign off a plan on a structure as an engineer, then it becomes apparent why you are so depraved of the bountiful joys and knowledge of life in general which you fail to comprehend, but their is still time tec0. I won't give up on you It's not all about money, in fact that's only a means of trade by applying a trade. There's alot more to know which means much more, but it seems to be out of your reach at this stage from your responses I am reading.

Quote: "The truth... what is the truth? " ...it is clear you don't know....yet I have taken the time to share the Truth with you in these texts

Be quiet, listen first and learn, ask good questions and we take it from there. Put away absurd suggestions of your children behaving like insects, lest they get squashed under my shoe by accident.... Teach them to stand on thier own 2 legs, to read and write, to study all things in the Universe and become well rounded members of society.

Quote: " get people to be addicted to a chemical and then make them work for that chemical"

The fruits of labour are wealth, prosperity, knowlegde etc. Those who would spend thier lives labouring for some chemical are doomed and you insult humanity with your comments purporting they are insects or should be treated as such. I wonder if that's all your parents wanted for you, to be drug dependant and oblivious of the abundance of wisdom to be learned while you persue money?

Come one...there's much to be learned...let's be a bit more serious tec0. Education & the syllabus of our schools, before we can hand it over to the state to babysit our kids, as the state is sterile, they're our kids and we decide what should be taught, evolution or creation? Do you feel we should leave the state out of this? I do.

[tec0]

I was hoping to avoid this one... Right, drugs and human slavery goes hand in hand. We all have seen the movies, we got the books and we have “rehabilitated monsters” teaching our children about drug abuse.

I used to be a dreamer, writer and a poet, but I had to put my pen down because these things do not but food on the table. So giving up on dreams IS a fact of life. We all will have to do it at some point. Now as for finding the truth, yes we may agree on something’s but face the fact there is no real life so teaching your children to reach for the stars is the worst thing one can ever do.

Give them the facts and realities; do well in school or face hardship. Learn a trade and become useful or be left out. Stay clear of all alcohol and drugs or become its slave. Lastly: love is only an allusion and it will blind you from the truth if you let it.

The world is a cold evil place and it is time that we face this fact and wise-up. In short, we lost... it is game over and all you see now is people living in the aftermath. The powers of good and divinity is nothing when you point out to the many victorious evils that is now our reality.

So in the end just hope that a medicated reality can make you numb and compliant and hope that our gods “whoever they may be” pity us. Still I don’t see it happening anytime soon so welcome to hell population 8 billion. “in counting”

[Butch Hannan]

Before you tag me with something that I am not I would like to state that I am a Christian. I am also a sinner and I believe in the saving grace of Our Lord Jesus Christ. He will judge all mankind one day and he is ultimately in control. There is a very simple solution for the problems of the world and that is for humankind to TRULY accept Jesus and he will then heal our world.
Yes, there are people who are trying to control the world as we know it but they will not prevail.
Butch Hannan

[Marq]

I have a better idea for this recession and education conundrum.

Lets put Francois forward as the chief in charge of these problems - he knows so much more than the rest of us put together, he knows the truth, whatever that means, knows when the world is coming to an end and has all the answers cause the bible told him so. Who could possible come up with a better plan, given these credentials.

Then he can appoint Butch as the chief advisor on religious affairs and get a plan together to convert the population who are all sinners and bad guys anyway, to christianity. They will appoint this Jesus fellow to govern the world because apparently he is better than anyone else's messiah in this regard and will judge all of you sinners out there properly so you can all be well heeled.

[tec0]

It took me half an hour to stop giggling.

Well let us just say, it comes to accountability. Every aspect and every problem that exist exist because of the human factor. We have the capacity to generate problems like no other living thing and we specialise in making things difficult.

Let us simplify the problems first. Identify the basic reality of our situation and then only can we really understand the bigger picture. Once this process is done we can continue to rip each other’s lungs out but before that can happen we need to understand the base of all our problems and I think many will agree that the face of our problems is basic greed.

So we have crime and corruption and it is basically the same thing. Why does crime exist and why is corruption still a problem today? Also there are human made problems so as humans we can probably discover a few truths around crime and corruption. So what makes it tick?

[Butch Hannan]

Hi Marq,
There is one very subtle difference and that is that Francois and I are not the answer. The answer lies in the saving Grace of Jesus Christ. I can give you personal testimony about this. I was not a very pleasant person until I accepted Christ into my life. I was subsequently involved for many years in prison ministry. I witnessed the power and saving Grace of Jesus Christ in the offenders lives. The fall back rate in our prisons is close to 80%. This means that most of the offenders end up in prison again. This dropped down to about 5% for the people who attended the 15 week course that we presented and accepted Christ as their Saviour.
Marq, I would urge you to attend an Alpha course at one of the local churches in your area. This would help you to clarify a lot of the issues that you obviously have. Do you have the courage to find out the truth?
Butch Hannan

[Marq]

Butch, I do not have to find 'your' truth, I moved well beyond that many years ago.

What you and your fellow christian followers should realise and recognise in your truths is that I may be Jewish or Muslim or Budhist or follow one of the many other religions in this world. I may have moved beyond orthodox religion and belong to some pagan secret mystical clan for all you know. And that is the point, you do not know and yet you assume I have obvious issues. The only issue I have is that there are folk are there who believe they have found this mystical truth and they then get this arrogant attitude that all should be saved by believing in what they have found.

I have yet to hear or see one christian who has taken the time out to ask the question of another as to what their beliefs consist of and then sit back, listen and accept that perhaps there are other scenarios that exist on this earth. We only hear their constant barrage of arrogant spurious claims that they are the only ones with the truth and knowledge of what this world is about. Not very christian like in itself. Forum posts like this one, for example, then become a pedestal for personal ravings and rantings based on very narrow and limited understandings of the universe and each other. In other words a methodology of ramming an illogical theosophy down everyones throat.

Now I realise that you have 'saved' many souls in certain circumstances and feel that you have achieved well and seen some result. This is perhaps because your victims were of a suitable lower consciousness level to accept your teachings and not question them. On the other hand there are those who have looked beyond these basic teachings and have advanced to a stage where there is no need to 'belong' to an organisation or have a need to appoint a substitute idol to take responsibility for what they do.

You of course are most welcome to practise whatever rows your boat and believe in, whatever it is that takes you through your day. But then so are others. I certainly am not going to get into a 'debate' on this issue where you believe your god is greater than mine. Further more, I am not going to do your alpha course (which I have seen by the way) in order to solve my problems or obvious issues which you assume to know I have, despite not taking the time out to know me.

If you wish to hard sell your religion to the forum members, challenge them to finding your 'truth', which I must say really is a challenge, then perhaps Dave can set up a separate thread area alongside the mlm and scamming sections where this can be done and any interested people can rant and rave there - otherwise keep to the business discussions and light hearted comments on these sort of issues to avoid your 'truths' from being exposed.

[daveob]

and as Dave Allen the comedian used to say at the end of his program, "May Your God be with you".

[tec0]

Using any religion to win an argument is just a low blow in my opinion. Because the person using their religion knows that by using their religion others may not say what they want to say and therefore they are right and everyone else was wrong.

Well I say stop labelling each other and start talking as an individual. Stop hiding behind “truths” and face the fact that we must fend for ourselves and try to understand the problems us as humans face.

But if you want to bring your religion into a debate and get all angry about it then sorry this is no longer a debate it is a mudslinging contest and that then nothing gets done and people will lose interest. So the ball is in your hands.

[Dave A]

If you wish to hard sell your religion to the forum members, challenge them to finding your 'truth', which I must say really is a challenge, then perhaps Dave can set up a separate thread area alongside the mlm and scamming sections where this can be done and any interested people can rant and rave there...

Not going to happen, so vent your spleen here and get it out of your system.

[tec0]

Ag what a disappointment, here I thought we will debate get to the bottom for some pressing matters. Now it is just an age old argument of “who is right and who is wrong”

[Dave A]

Have your debate by all means. Just please excuse me if I stay out of it as I am likely to grossly offend. Here's one of the reasons why -

From my experience, business and religion don't go together well at all. The moment someone expects me to trust them because they are so honourably religious (and this applies to a fair multitude of faiths, unfortunately) it's mostly proved to have been the best warning indicator on show that I should not have had any business dealings with them at all.

[tonyflanigan]

@ Dave Hear Hear